Doubt ICE cars will go away completely any time soon. Ironically they're most likely to hang around in cities, where the logistics or charging and street parking are a huge unaddressed (and likely unaddressable) problem.
not when they ban diesel, then petrol, from cities.
Ultimately I don't believe they will. ICE use will fall heavily and quickly in outside cities and amongst traffic commuting in, so the perceived need to actually ban ICE cars will fall away.
And I simply don't believe it will actually be possible to ban ICE in big cities, unless ultra-fast charging technologies are developed. Current charging times and city street parking become an irreconcilable combination as soon as electric vehicles make up more than a marginal percentage of cars.
I know Rof and that’s what I’d buy if I was looking now as new pure ICE’s will shortly get spanked with extra tax. I’ll be looking in three years or so when should be feasible to get a non ICE car that is more than just a local run about.
ELECTRIC CARS WILL NEVER WORK: JEREMY CLARKSON SAID SO!!
REMEMBER THAT TESLA WHICH DIDN’T WORK THAT ONE TIME ON TOP GEAR? PROVES THAT ITS ALL NONSENSE... LETS STICK WITH BURNING THE PRECIOUS, SWEET, WONDERFUL OIL!
I'm torn between going electric now, or getting a 2 year old for a few years then going electric in 2025ish
I think the latter, although whatever diesel/petrol I buy now will be worthless in 5 years time, so despite wanting an RS6 very, very badly it's not a very sensible idea.
There's no reason why this shouldn't be the same in every town and city.
Have you seen local authority budgets?
The only way you're going to see that is either huge central Govt spending (...) or mandating that a utility does it and passes on the cost through household bills.
Which they need to do quickly (...) otherwise the private sector will scoop up the lucrative places leaving Joe bloggs to pick up the tab for the unprofitable ones.
Petrol will continue to be available for specialist applications for as long as human society exists, and that will be how people run classic cars in future. Small numbers of classics on the road will have no measurable environmental impact, and the sake of petrol is never going to be banned altogether.
Also, petrol engined vehicles will be retained for emergency and military use because they are less vulnerable to infrastructural failure - at least in the short term - and to EMP attack, which will become a feasible WMD very soon.
Retailing of ICE cars may be stopped - I’m not 100% convinced it will happen as soon as everyone says, but it may well happen - but that does not mean petrol or petrol power will disappear - every large town will still have somewhere you can buy fossil fuel and you will be able to keep classics on the road. I’ll buy up some contemporary stuff to store for classic use, once I have land in the UK (a world in progress).
Does anyone know how they are going to sort out electric charging points for people who don't have a drive or can't guarantee even parking outside their own house?
There's basically one manufacturer making serious electric cars right now, and the same manufacturer has a monopoly on all the exciting new battery tech people talk about that makes electric cars truly viable. They also make premium vehicles that are out of the reach of most buyers.
The vast majority of car manufacturers have either no electric vehicles or some token novelties based on limited technology that you absolutely should not trust to be supported long-term. There are no viable electric vans.
I am extremely pro-electric vehicle but the idea that ICE will be dead in new vehicles for at least a decade is fantasy imo, and the second-hand market will obviously hang around longer than that.
If there are no viable electric vans that’s surely simply because nobody has chosen to make and market one yet. There is nothing about vanness that is intrinsically incompatible with electric power.
The battery monopoly thing is a red herring. Firstly Tesla do not actually have a monopoly on decent battery tech - see Porsche, Polestar. Secondly, other battery technologies are being patented all the time. some of which will probably be better than anything Tesla has. Monopolies don’t really exist in the car industry.
Not so sure about that. Tesla have all sorts of patents on car-specific battery and charging tech. They're also deeply embedded in the battery manufacturing process, where every other car manufacturer is basically just a customer buying a product from a battery maker.
And yes a viable electric van could definitely exist, but the car industry is slow and the fact that one doesn't exist yet means it's very unlikely that all the vans sold are going to be electric by 2025.
It has taken 20 years for it even to be suggested that mobile phones have the same chargers in one geographic region. The prospect that all current drivers will be able to switch to electric and charge their cars overnight is such a mind-bogglingly large task as to be ridiculous. The proportion of people who wouldn't be able to plug in their car is massive. And (as I understand it) the prospect of battery technology holding a charge such that it is not necessary to charge overnight is thought not possible. Correct me if I'm wrong Laz but this isn't like memory chip exponentional increase is it?
Several of the big petrol station operators are investing in providing charging points given the increasing demand.
Having recently built a new garage I've got my garage rigged to add charging points at a later date and going to encourage my parents to go hybrid or electric when they next get a car.
The point is that if tesla can develop it, so can everyone else, and with engineering it is always possible to do the same thing in a slightly-different enough way to beat a patent.
vans, trucks and buses make more sense to convert to hydrogen. The eye-watering cost of the storage and re-fuelling infra makes sense for large freight / bus garages etc. but apparently not for private cars. Presume we end up with two systems (much like petrol and diesel). Query for the rare supply of earth metals needed to make all this work.
Several of the big petrol station operators are investing in providing charging points given the increasing demand.
Unless charge times exponentially increase they are going to charge rent on the parking space needed too aren't they?
Also some of the proprietory charging points have now increased prices of charging to such an extent that charging to full has gone up 500% and so now costs more than filling up with petrol.
Retail will drive the standardisation or charging. Whatever charging system the supermarkets, car park chains and petrol retailers adopt - and I think they will adopt a standard one fairly soon - the manufacturers, including tesla, will adopt. It may well be the tesla system however, suitably dressed to avoid patent litigation while remaining compatible, of course.
Also while electricity is largely made by burning fossil fuels, it's not exactly green to create electric vehicles and the massive infrastructure needed to service them versus just keeping the cars we already have.
The private sector managed to do a reasonable job of adopting the three pin plug after the introduction of electricity so I'm sure care manufacturers can all manage to use the same type of plug in time. They have after all managed to agree on a standard size of fuel nozzle.
Don't you mean "where they can charge up while entirely stationary, which is the opposite of what their job is and why I've heard loads of cabbies moaning about it"?
Ford F-150 pick up truck along with several large petrol cans for long trips (just to annoy the eco-tedes in their micro electrics).
THAT'S THE STUFF!
DON'T LISTEN TO THE ECOTARDS AND THE SO-CALLED "SCIENTISTS": CLIMATE CHANGE IS A SOCIALIST LIE AND IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME YOU CAN READ IT ON THE INTERNET!!
I have almost certainly already bought my last petrol car. I never bought a diesel because it was obvious to anyone who looked that they were evil and toxic.
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mine will certainly drive my collection of classics
I guess a bmw. never owned one but they have a reputation for building great engines.
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Tbh probably would be a countache just because of all those posters as a teenager
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Art, my boy, art.
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there will still be petrol, but it will be a specialist item for classic car owners and priced such that it's not viable for day-to-day driving.
My car has about 4 years left in it.
Will go electric next. Think I like the Polestar 2 over a Tesla 3 (not keen on the price of a Tesla S or X)
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Ford F-150 pick up truck along with several large petrol cans for long trips (just to annoy the eco-tedes in their micro electrics).
Should last a while, then I'll have to resort to bartering water for fuel and bullets.
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Doubt ICE cars will go away completely any time soon. Ironically they're most likely to hang around in cities, where the logistics or charging and street parking are a huge unaddressed (and likely unaddressable) problem.
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not when they ban diesel, then petrol, from cities.
The way we use cars will change (and we will adopt very fast), much like the transition from charge once a week nokia to charge twice a day iPhone.
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Maybe we should make sure we are producing enough electricity for all this.
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no-one needs a joined up approach - always better to solve 2/7ths of a problem and expect the rest to be wished into oblivion.
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not when they ban diesel, then petrol, from cities.
Ultimately I don't believe they will. ICE use will fall heavily and quickly in outside cities and amongst traffic commuting in, so the perceived need to actually ban ICE cars will fall away.
And I simply don't believe it will actually be possible to ban ICE in big cities, unless ultra-fast charging technologies are developed. Current charging times and city street parking become an irreconcilable combination as soon as electric vehicles make up more than a marginal percentage of cars.
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Think I’ve already got mine as I’ll change it in the next few years and would certainly only buy a hybrid if I was buying a new car now.
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SS. A hybrid has an ice as well as electric. Sorry to break it to you.
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Sailo is buying a Tesla with a spinnaker.
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Glad London’s had all the investment again.
Kind rgds,
A Chippy Northern twot
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But the north. Y'know?
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I know Rof and that’s what I’d buy if I was looking now as new pure ICE’s will shortly get spanked with extra tax. I’ll be looking in three years or so when should be feasible to get a non ICE car that is more than just a local run about.
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But we will still be able to keep importing our 6 litre V8 cars indefinitely from the USA, surely.
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ELECTRIC CARS WILL NEVER WORK: JEREMY CLARKSON SAID SO!!
REMEMBER THAT TESLA WHICH DIDN’T WORK THAT ONE TIME ON TOP GEAR? PROVES THAT ITS ALL NONSENSE... LETS STICK WITH BURNING THE PRECIOUS, SWEET, WONDERFUL OIL!
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0
It's a nghtmare.
I'm torn between going electric now, or getting a 2 year old for a few years then going electric in 2025ish
I think the latter, although whatever diesel/petrol I buy now will be worthless in 5 years time, so despite wanting an RS6 very, very badly it's not a very sensible idea.
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0
Have you seen local authority budgets?
The only way you're going to see that is either huge central Govt spending (...) or mandating that a utility does it and passes on the cost through household bills.
Which they need to do quickly (...) otherwise the private sector will scoop up the lucrative places leaving Joe bloggs to pick up the tab for the unprofitable ones.
0
0
Petrol will continue to be available for specialist applications for as long as human society exists, and that will be how people run classic cars in future. Small numbers of classics on the road will have no measurable environmental impact, and the sake of petrol is never going to be banned altogether.
0
0
Also, petrol engined vehicles will be retained for emergency and military use because they are less vulnerable to infrastructural failure - at least in the short term - and to EMP attack, which will become a feasible WMD very soon.
Retailing of ICE cars may be stopped - I’m not 100% convinced it will happen as soon as everyone says, but it may well happen - but that does not mean petrol or petrol power will disappear - every large town will still have somewhere you can buy fossil fuel and you will be able to keep classics on the road. I’ll buy up some contemporary stuff to store for classic use, once I have land in the UK (a world in progress).
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0
Does anyone know how they are going to sort out electric charging points for people who don't have a drive or can't guarantee even parking outside their own house?
0
0
There's basically one manufacturer making serious electric cars right now, and the same manufacturer has a monopoly on all the exciting new battery tech people talk about that makes electric cars truly viable. They also make premium vehicles that are out of the reach of most buyers.
The vast majority of car manufacturers have either no electric vehicles or some token novelties based on limited technology that you absolutely should not trust to be supported long-term. There are no viable electric vans.
I am extremely pro-electric vehicle but the idea that ICE will be dead in new vehicles for at least a decade is fantasy imo, and the second-hand market will obviously hang around longer than that.
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I agree with pancakes. the transition will be slower than people think.
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If there are no viable electric vans that’s surely simply because nobody has chosen to make and market one yet. There is nothing about vanness that is intrinsically incompatible with electric power.
The battery monopoly thing is a red herring. Firstly Tesla do not actually have a monopoly on decent battery tech - see Porsche, Polestar. Secondly, other battery technologies are being patented all the time. some of which will probably be better than anything Tesla has. Monopolies don’t really exist in the car industry.
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but for all that, I agree with the slower transition point
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Not so sure about that. Tesla have all sorts of patents on car-specific battery and charging tech. They're also deeply embedded in the battery manufacturing process, where every other car manufacturer is basically just a customer buying a product from a battery maker.
And yes a viable electric van could definitely exist, but the car industry is slow and the fact that one doesn't exist yet means it's very unlikely that all the vans sold are going to be electric by 2025.
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It has taken 20 years for it even to be suggested that mobile phones have the same chargers in one geographic region. The prospect that all current drivers will be able to switch to electric and charge their cars overnight is such a mind-bogglingly large task as to be ridiculous. The proportion of people who wouldn't be able to plug in their car is massive. And (as I understand it) the prospect of battery technology holding a charge such that it is not necessary to charge overnight is thought not possible. Correct me if I'm wrong Laz but this isn't like memory chip exponentional increase is it?
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So what’s under those electric porsches then?
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Something that gets the Porsche about 100 miles if driven with even the most minor vigour.
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Several of the big petrol station operators are investing in providing charging points given the increasing demand.
Having recently built a new garage I've got my garage rigged to add charging points at a later date and going to encourage my parents to go hybrid or electric when they next get a car.
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0
The point is that if tesla can develop it, so can everyone else, and with engineering it is always possible to do the same thing in a slightly-different enough way to beat a patent.
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0
vans, trucks and buses make more sense to convert to hydrogen. The eye-watering cost of the storage and re-fuelling infra makes sense for large freight / bus garages etc. but apparently not for private cars. Presume we end up with two systems (much like petrol and diesel). Query for the rare supply of earth metals needed to make all this work.
0
0
Several of the big petrol station operators are investing in providing charging points given the increasing demand.
Unless charge times exponentially increase they are going to charge rent on the parking space needed too aren't they?
Also some of the proprietory charging points have now increased prices of charging to such an extent that charging to full has gone up 500% and so now costs more than filling up with petrol.
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Probably already bought the last one.
Mrs B's Audi should last 5 or 6 years.
My Skoda has a 1.6 tdi engine in it which can do 400,000 miles. It's on 70,000 at the moment.
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Retail will drive the standardisation or charging. Whatever charging system the supermarkets, car park chains and petrol retailers adopt - and I think they will adopt a standard one fairly soon - the manufacturers, including tesla, will adopt. It may well be the tesla system however, suitably dressed to avoid patent litigation while remaining compatible, of course.
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regulation will emerge to ensure the proliferation of charging points and to prevent profiteering
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Also while electricity is largely made by burning fossil fuels, it's not exactly green to create electric vehicles and the massive infrastructure needed to service them versus just keeping the cars we already have.
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no but it’s a fair assumption that power generation will steadily greenify over time
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regulation seems like the sort of thing the EU will do. And the UK will be railroaded into adopting whatever standard donates the most to the tories.
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What is an "eco tede" Chambers?
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The private sector managed to do a reasonable job of adopting the three pin plug after the introduction of electricity so I'm sure care manufacturers can all manage to use the same type of plug in time. They have after all managed to agree on a standard size of fuel nozzle.
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petrol cars will still have a value, there’s a huge exprt market in used cars ( although not necessarily from the the uk at present),
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where they can charge up on the go.
Don't you mean "where they can charge up while entirely stationary, which is the opposite of what their job is and why I've heard loads of cabbies moaning about it"?
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My current one probably. A 5l v8 beauty.
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I literally asked one yesterday about it and he moaned about having to charge it during shifts and losing fares.
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Personally I loved the cab. Brand new, card reader in a sensible place, quiet and comfortable and proper warning for seat belt.
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What kind of poo juggler puts a seatbelt on in a cab
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THAT'S THE STUFF!
DON'T LISTEN TO THE ECOTARDS AND THE SO-CALLED "SCIENTISTS": CLIMATE CHANGE IS A SOCIALIST LIE AND IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME YOU CAN READ IT ON THE INTERNET!!
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??? Same here. 5 years should be a doddle.
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I have almost certainly already bought my last petrol car. I never bought a diesel because it was obvious to anyone who looked that they were evil and toxic.
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