corbyn is a wily old fox, hasn’t committed to remain being an option but it is probably enough to stop more MPs jumping ship and will ensure the yoof vote in any GE.
What would the question be in Corbyn's world? He can't back a Tory Brexit yet the ref would be May's deal vs Remain. So he'd be campaigning for something he doesn't believe in, while upsetting a huge swathe of his own voters. Good luck with that.
Oh I’m not supporting their position, just noting that their “there is plenty of time for us to change to supporting a 2nd ref” has at least progressed beyond wanting a GE.
Kier Starmer is not letting Corbyn get away with fudge
To his credit he made the labour policy absolutely crystal clear on the radio
If May cannot get changes to the deal to get through parliament (which nobody really believes she can) then Labour will be calling for a referendum with remain on the paper.
So are Labour now supporting a delay or are they suggesting that we will call the referendum and have it next week immediately after the meaningful vote on the deal with JC's total renegotiation done in 16 days?
JC obviously cannot negotiate a deal unless he is in power and he wont get a general election. Actually though he could get a deal of the sort he wants because he wants a very close Norway style agreement that the EU would be delighted with.
diceman there could well be a parliamentary majority for a referendum on Mays deal or remain if it becomes clear there is no hope of the deal going through. Those Tories currently supporting the deal could swing behind that as could quite a few from the Labour party.
Frankly it becomes just about the only option left if neither ERG or Labour will support the deal and no deal cannot be allowed to happen
I reckon it will be less that 10 years, and probably closer to 5, that UK will want back in.... Irrespective of who's in power. And the UK will be royally shafted on re-entry..... ooohhhh, matron!
Incidentally, Altogether Now was the title of a Rolf Harris record. My parents purchased it for me when I was a wee bairn. I am taking advice from counsel as to whether that may be actionable, in spite of any statutory limitations.
so that leaves us nowhere to go other than a referendum on May’s deal, with the other option being Remain (presumably with some sort of agreement to explore attempting to Leave again later)
It's a perfectly reasonably left wing position for working class people to take:
A supranational organisation where the pre-requisite for trade is the influx of cheap labour into expensive capital markets to enable capital to remain or the flight of capital to cheap labour markets. If you're expensive labour in an expensive capital market then you're fvcked both ways.
Unless you can point me to any credible evidence to show that Brexit is going to result in more jobs and higher wages for working class people, lower living costs and more money for the NHS, education and social housing. But all the evidence is pointing towards precisely the opposite, isn't it?
I mean, a sensible leftie would point out that if it's good for Jacob Rees Mogg and Crispin Odey, it's not going to be good for working class lads from Sunderland or Sheffield.
Repeatedly telling them this doesn't seem to be having the desired effect of making them realise their terrible mistake, though. I wonder why that might be?
" a sensible leftie would point out that if it's good for Jacob Rees Mogg and Crispin Odey, it's not going to be good for working class lads from Sunderland or Sheffield"
Repeatedly telling them this doesn't seem to be having the desired effect of making them realise their terrible mistake, though. I wonder why that might be?
Because unfortunately the reason they are "left behind" and therefore ripe for this kind of exploitation is because they lack the intelligence and educational opportunities to better themselves, and these are the same things which would enable them to see through the Brexit bullshit.
"Because unfortunately the reason they are "left behind" and therefore ripe for this kind of exploitation is because they lack the intelligence and educational opportunities to better themselves, and these are the same things which would enable them to see through the Brexit bullshit."
You clearly think highly of the working classes.
I'd suggest that they've been given the opportunity between a rock and a hard place. They've been living under the rock for a long time and that hasn't worked for them, so they're going to give the hard place a go. It looks like the rock, feels like the rock, but isn't the rock, so at least it's a change.
“So who do small “c” conservatives vote for these days?”
As the smallest of small c and wettest of wet Conservatives, I have not the foggiest but am hopeful that TIG will evolve into something deserving of a vote (however wasted it may be in my constituency)
I fear we are still fooked as TM is taking a small extension to sort the backstop and the EU only wants a long extension with total renegotiation of the agreement once TM tells them what we want. No matter what you think of it TM’s deal seems the only thing that doesn’t risk no deal in just under a month.
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Isn’t clear what he’s doing tbf
Classic lefty nonsense
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No it’s backing a second ref if we don’t get a Common Market Brexit and if the Cooper extension amendment fails.
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Heh. This is getting desperate.
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Why are Labour such a waste of space.
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Too late. Just coming across as an opportunistic bastard.
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What would the question be in Corbyn's world? He can't back a Tory Brexit yet the ref would be May's deal vs Remain. So he'd be campaigning for something he doesn't believe in, while upsetting a huge swathe of his own voters. Good luck with that.
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Oh I’m not supporting their position, just noting that their “there is plenty of time for us to change to supporting a 2nd ref” has at least progressed beyond wanting a GE.
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He really is a monumentally cynical old aunt.
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Just imagine the marginal rate between £100 and £120k if he gets in buzz....
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Or am I confusing marginal with effective....either way, loads of money
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? @ wellers
marginal was spot on
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Zzz. Wellerz being a bit thick umderachiever non shocka.
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Sussex Arms shout
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Creepy weirdo shout!
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Takes one to know one!
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Questions for the next Labour referendum:
"Do you want another referendum?" YES/NO
"Do you want to join the USSR?" YES/NO
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Kier Starmer is not letting Corbyn get away with fudge
To his credit he made the labour policy absolutely crystal clear on the radio
If May cannot get changes to the deal to get through parliament (which nobody really believes she can) then Labour will be calling for a referendum with remain on the paper.
Referendum here we come.
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So are Labour now supporting a delay or are they suggesting that we will call the referendum and have it next week immediately after the meaningful vote on the deal with JC's total renegotiation done in 16 days?
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they are saying there will be an extension
JCs renegotiation is off the table really.
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Oh so his amazing agreement that has red lines that the EU certainly won't agree to won't be an option in his referendum?
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Who thinks there's a parl maj for a 2nd referendum?
not me
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No
JC obviously cannot negotiate a deal unless he is in power and he wont get a general election. Actually though he could get a deal of the sort he wants because he wants a very close Norway style agreement that the EU would be delighted with.
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diceman there could well be a parliamentary majority for a referendum on Mays deal or remain if it becomes clear there is no hope of the deal going through. Those Tories currently supporting the deal could swing behind that as could quite a few from the Labour party.
Frankly it becomes just about the only option left if neither ERG or Labour will support the deal and no deal cannot be allowed to happen
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I reckon it will be less that 10 years, and probably closer to 5, that UK will want back in.... Irrespective of who's in power. And the UK will be royally shafted on re-entry..... ooohhhh, matron!
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we aren't leaving the EU.
There will be an extension of A.50
2nd Referendum
The country will vote to remain.
Everyone will cheer
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Jesus H Roosevelt Christ
I can't keep up any more
Can Bobby Ewing hurry up in that shower pls
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Oh yes you are....
Altogether now... panto style.
Incidentally, Altogether Now was the title of a Rolf Harris record. My parents purchased it for me when I was a wee bairn. I am taking advice from counsel as to whether that may be actionable, in spite of any statutory limitations.
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It's also the name of a shit BBC show
back this week folks!!!
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wot Guy sed
there’s no maj for a proper second referendum
there’s no maj for May’s deal
there’s a positive maj against a ‘no deal’
so that leaves us nowhere to go other than a referendum on May’s deal, with the other option being Remain (presumably with some sort of agreement to explore attempting to Leave again later)
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"Classic lefty nonsense"
The left position should be to leave the EU.
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Of course not. The working men and women who supported Leave already feel abandoned by Labour. This is the nail in the coffin.
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Of course it should, but that sort of common sense went out the window c.1985.
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Does anyone seriously think Brexit will be good for working class people? I mean, honestly?
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Yes Anna, pseudo upper class loving twits like dux do.
And all those minted peeps who’d further enrich themselves from it.
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"Does anyone seriously think Brexit will be good for working class people?"
The working class people who voted for it?
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At least that’s what they say
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It's a perfectly reasonably left wing position for working class people to take:
A supranational organisation where the pre-requisite for trade is the influx of cheap labour into expensive capital markets to enable capital to remain or the flight of capital to cheap labour markets. If you're expensive labour in an expensive capital market then you're fvcked both ways.
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Right, but they're mistaken, obviously.
Unless you can point me to any credible evidence to show that Brexit is going to result in more jobs and higher wages for working class people, lower living costs and more money for the NHS, education and social housing. But all the evidence is pointing towards precisely the opposite, isn't it?
So how will Brexit benefit working class people?
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I mean, a sensible leftie would point out that if it's good for Jacob Rees Mogg and Crispin Odey, it's not going to be good for working class lads from Sunderland or Sheffield.
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"Right, but they're mistaken, obviously."
Repeatedly telling them this doesn't seem to be having the desired effect of making them realise their terrible mistake, though. I wonder why that might be?
" a sensible leftie would point out that if it's good for Jacob Rees Mogg and Crispin Odey, it's not going to be good for working class lads from Sunderland or Sheffield"
A 'sensible' lefty is a small 'c' conservative.
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Because unfortunately the reason they are "left behind" and therefore ripe for this kind of exploitation is because they lack the intelligence and educational opportunities to better themselves, and these are the same things which would enable them to see through the Brexit bullshit.
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So who do small "c" conservatives vote for these days?
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"Because unfortunately the reason they are "left behind" and therefore ripe for this kind of exploitation is because they lack the intelligence and educational opportunities to better themselves, and these are the same things which would enable them to see through the Brexit bullshit."
You clearly think highly of the working classes.
I'd suggest that they've been given the opportunity between a rock and a hard place. They've been living under the rock for a long time and that hasn't worked for them, so they're going to give the hard place a go. It looks like the rock, feels like the rock, but isn't the rock, so at least it's a change.
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I can feel sorry for them without agreeing that they are right.
They are right to feel angry but wrong about the solution.
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The "rock" that working class and the left behind who voted Brexit have been living under isn't the EU
but you already know that.
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The rock is globalisation and the EU is the most definable proponent of that in their lives.
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These forthcoming votes are they binding? Also noted she said getting an extension does NOT take article 50 of the table.
lastly I see she didn’t address the house on what she brought back following the most recent negotiations.....
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some Belgian choccies? in the usual place?
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“So who do small “c” conservatives vote for these days?”
As the smallest of small c and wettest of wet Conservatives, I have not the foggiest but am hopeful that TIG will evolve into something deserving of a vote (however wasted it may be in my constituency)
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I fear we are still fooked as TM is taking a small extension to sort the backstop and the EU only wants a long extension with total renegotiation of the agreement once TM tells them what we want. No matter what you think of it TM’s deal seems the only thing that doesn’t risk no deal in just under a month.
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people need to start calling unsubstanti7ed bollox like this out
it’s exactly this sort of thoughtless comment people believe without properly questioning it
globalisation has had multiple effects
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