Jail sentence????

What are the thoughts on this people? 

Quite frankly I understand why but I cannot believe a career and basically life are over, always ask for ID is how it will go in future 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6679531/Office-worker-spent-night-12-year-old-girl-jailed.html

It’s absolutely appalling. Reading the Mail online is an atrocious habit.

Is the half age plus 7 still a good guide?  If so then he should not have been after a 19 yr old

Think he was looking for a shag Rhialto, not a wife. 

It's certainly harsh given that it was purely statutory rape, there was no suggestion of coercion, and it was completely accepted that she lied to him about her age, he believed that she was 19, and that it was a reasonable belief on his part (ie, she could have fooled the "reasonable man"), plus the psychologist report (paraphrased) basically said "I couldn't find any damage to the girl as a result of this incident, but since the incident happened, there must be long term damage even if I can't find it". 

Having said that - I don't see how the judge had a choice - he had to throw the book at this guy. Child sex laws are strict liability for obvious reasons (and even more so in the context of a 12 year old - this wasn't a 15 year old just short of the age of consent) and this is the kind of extreme outlier where such laws have a disproportionate effect - in most cases it is entirely justified to throw the book at men who have sex with 12 year olds. 

Agree judge had no choice but for a lot of 20 somethings, it must be a case of there but for the grace of God 

You know what, I don’t think there are many 12 year olds who you would with a straight face be able to mistake for 19 year olds. I’ll accept he might not have thought he was shagging a 12 yr old, but seems to admit he thought she was “at least” 16, and I think you probably do have a bit of a responsibility to check in those circs. 

Zero..at school there was a girl in the year below me who at 12 could have passed for 20.  She was built like an Amazon and very strong rounded and womanly.  This caused exactly this problem...she dated a 19 year old who thought she was the same age...he was horrified.

You need a tall girl with boobs and make up and I can easily believe the mistake. 

So you agree that there are not many 12 year olds who could pass for 19 then?

Tbf I would be interested what the fettes think of this one. My gut feel is the guy was a wrong un. 

Very few I would have thought ZG. There would be an even smaller pool whose parents would allow them unfettered access to the internet and the keys to Manchester city. 

 

My niece is twelve years old. She could not be mistaken for anything other than her own age, but even so there is no way her parents would allow her out on her own in Manchester, even to meet her friends, let alone to meet a bloke she met on a dating app. She wouldn't ave access to a dating app

Sorry about the multiple posts above, interweb connection was shocking last night, thought my alternative link didn't actually get posted.

For me, whilst there are not that many 12 yr. olds who may pass as 19, there are certainly some and it's not totally unbelievable, on the face of the news reports, the guy genuinely believed the girl was 19, she was on a dating app for over 18's, she maintained she was 19, she willingly met him, she was not under the influence of substances, therefore I personally feel it is a very, very harsh sentence, if he intended to meet a female under 16 then obviously the sentence should be severe but this is not the case.

I also feel the comments by the Police "Following the hearing, Detective Constable Tina Jackson, of GMP’s Project Phoenix Bury team, said: “Carl Hodgson would have known the schoolgirl was under 16 and showed complete disregard for the law for his own sexual gratification." How would he have known she was under 16 when she was on an adult dating app and she maintained she was 19? and complete disregard for the law implies he knew what he was doing was wrong but carried on anyway, this is again not the case.

Like I said, it's getting to the stage where if you meet someone (on a night out or through the interweb) and you progress to a more intimate level, you will need a signed consent and a copy of photographic ID clearly detailing DOB.

 

Do you also maintain the position on internet fora that the #metoo movement means one requires signed consent from a woman before having sex with her?

Another example of injustice caused by laws that ignore mens rea.  Punishing crime without intent or evidence of recklessness  is barbaric

The judge made a finding of fact that he didn’t know she was 12 and reasonably believed she was 19, so for the copper to say in her press release that he knew she was not 16 is disengenious at best .

it seems the judge agreed and he would know that the victim looked her age.

Fuck me the meninists are out in force today

I find that as you get older it gets harder to accurately work out how old younger people are.  As others have said there can be huge differences between kids of the same age and I have two cousins who are just over a year apart in age but one has already had a growth spurt and is quite mature and the other hasn't and if I didn't know them I'd say there could be two or three years between them.

It's ok Wang nobody under 20 will even look at me these days.

You know that post give less comfort than is probably intended. 

Well Zero I wouldn't want to disappoint by suddenly seeming not to be a total old perv.

It really isn't that difficult.

If you aren't 100% sure then don't do it.

Supes he was sure , and the judge agreed. The judge having had the benefit of actually seeing her And observing her in person. Is the offence for which he plead guilty to a strict liability offence ?

bailey to the board please .

And what if you are 100% sure and just turn out to be wrong supes, as in the case I saw where at a family party the 18 year old son of my wife’s best friend was cracking hard on to my extremely grown up looking but still 13 year old niece.

Now on that occasion someone broke it to him quietly, but what if they had been in (say) a club? prison for him is it?

What strutter said. Surely reasonable belief is a defence , or should be. The judge made no criticism of him , indeed the reverse. It is a very sad outcome really.

He totally was - I have known this kid all my life and I understand he was quite shocked when he was told how old my niece was

You shouldn't be sniffing around teenagers unless you are a teenager yourself.

If you are 27 then why are you sniffing around 19 year olds in the first place.

"i have known this kid all my life"

Unless you've got an actual tardis, this seems unlikely

I sense I will incur Supe's disapproval when I mention I once went out with a lady who was 11 years younger than me for a few weeks every year although she was 23 at the time.

Strutter your friend's son would have been able to avail himself of the young man's defence wouldn't he? 

Zero.... to be clear.

I agree with your statement that there are few 12 year olds who look 19.

If there was an inference in your post that this makes it unlikely that the offender knew the girl wasn't 19, I disagree with the inference.  There are sufficient girls who are sufficiently physically developed to make this possible... The fact that the judge made a finding that the perpetrator had reasonable grounds to believe she was over 16... also rather sways the case.

Sorry doggers, but it doesn't take more than an hour of talking to a 12 year old to realise that they aren't an adult. An hour is certainly enough time to put serious doubt in your mind.

On closer inspection of the case he DID NOT have intercourse with her making the sentence in light of the facts seem even harsher.

Supes, what you think about how easy it is to tell how young somebody is is irrelevant - the judge found as a matter of fact that the defendant acted reasonably so that is the basis on which we must consider the justice of the sentence.

I think it is more the anti-locking people up when the judge has found they have acted reasonably lobby.

Nice (and possibly defamatory) misrepresentation to cover your retreat

Supes, my father is ten years older than my mother, such age differences are very common, does that make him a perv . He met whilst he was in hospital, and she was a second year medical student....

And that ladies and gentleman is the closest to an admission of a lost argument as we are likely to get.

It isn't the age difference, ebitda. it's the fact that an adult shouldn't be fucking around with a teenager. It isn't rocket science.

And that ladies and gentleman is an indication of just how ridiculous I find your arguments.

 

Why are you so desperate to shag teenagers?

you may think that but that isn't the law, so again, irrelevant.

 "Mine was decent. Nailed that bird, unreal bod." (From the MEN report)

 

FFS what 12yo has an "unreal bod" for even a (supposed) 19 yo?

If that is true that kid probably has a stellar modelling career ahead of her. 

She was bloody 12! Wtf? No one in their right mind would imagine that a twelve year old could pass for 19 ffs.  Sickening.

 

Slavery was legal for hundreds of years, doesn't make it right.

I absolutely reserve the right to judge a grown man who sleeps with a 16 year old as a raving pedo, even if the law doesn't.

Or it could just be that he was giving it billy bullsh1t to his mate. The fact that he didn’t actually nail her being possibly a clue in this regard.

Supes , my father was 28 when he met my mother who was barely 19 (and therefore a teenager) so to use your expression he was fucking about with a teenager. Does or did that make him a paedo?

It does these days ebitda, soz. Are gaps aren’t allowed anymore, do try and keep up.

Supes, you are unclear on one important detail. He DID NOT sleep/have sex with her.

There is a difference between trolling Tinder for 19 year olds and happening to fall in love with one in completely platonic circumstances.

Unless you old man was in the habit of making himself sick for the sole purpose of hitting on teenage nurses in the hospital, which would make him a perve.

 

How have they established that if the victim was unwilling to talk about it?  Just his word against absence of a creible allegation?

Deserves all he gets for sending the photo to his m8.  Why do people do that?

"At her suggestion they went back to his flat. They drank a single alcohol drink. He said they went into his bedroom, removed their clothing, she removed her own and she believed she was over 18.'

Hodgson carried out a sex act then took an indecent picture of the girl on his mobile phone and sent the image to a friend. "

Was he Bill Clinton?

Try again.

Paedo is as paedo does.  It is not governed by law, it is related to ones actions.  I lived in Sweden and worked in Norway. The age of legal consent in Sweden at the time was 13.  I was 30.  My girlfriend at the time was 19 and I thought she was a bit too young. 

Legally, it would have been acceptable for me to have sex with a thirteen year old girl.  Even typing that I feel a bit icky.  Yuk.

That is the difference.  Psychologically it makes me feel a bit sick to even think about it. Paedos do not feel sick, they feel aroused.  Gross.

What I find more of a challenge is that whilst as a finding of fact she looked 18, it may have been a leap to deduce she acted/spoke like an 18 year old . Yet as I said before the judge and the psychologist had the benefit of seeing and observing her, and they found her to be of the age which she told him...

i bet his sentence is overturned on appeal

I'm no particular fan of plod but the reporting here is hinting fairly strongly that they did more than just a sex act, but the girl won't talk about it so nothing is proven that can't be evidenced (rightly).

And there is a world of difference between an 18 year old at a party cracking on to a 13 year old unknowingly or ebit's dad meeting a (self evidently) 19 year old socially and that leading on to a relationship.

It may be that the girl here is one of doggers' examples of a 12 year old who could physically pass for 19, but we are not just talking about snogging someone in a club and finding out later, trainspotting style, but meeting up for a fvck. The guy could be very hard done by, and I do accept that he may have genuinely believed she was 19, but my feeling from reading the facts as reported is that he didn't give a fvck what age she was an should have been able to tell, if he had chosen to check.

What, did he carbon date her? Chop a limb off and count the rings?

If he had asked fo "proof", and the girl showed a fake ID, wouldn't the outcome under the law have been the same if it's a strict liability offence?

Rubbish did he check, sorry but no.  He was horny and probably thought she was about 15 or 16 and so he clearly fucked her.  Kids these days get up to all sorts and I'm sure he was of that vague opinion.  However it doesn't give him any bloody credit.  He clearly shagged an underage girl, probably even assumed she was (just) underage.  Given his age? Unacceptable.

He admitted to performing a sex act on a 12 year old ffs why is this even a conversation?