ISIS "schoolgirl" who wants to come home

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47229181

She is no longer a schoolgirl... and from her comments believes it's okay to kill "enemies of Islam".  Given that, to her, this would be about 95% of the UK population I hope she stays put!

I assume though she can just return if she is a UK citizen and deal with any offence she committed under the terrorism acts or whatever it is you breach when you go to Syria?  What is actually stopping her coming home? 

 

What is actually stopping her coming home? 

Probably the fact that she'll be put on the first rendition flight to Egypt and her nipples connected to a car battery within a couple of days

Let me just check in my bag of botheration on her behalf........

........yes, yes, rather as I thought.........

........... it seems that I would really rather not pay my taxes to support the lifestyle of this person who is violently opposed to my way of life and her soon to be numerous children.

Sozzlepips.

She should be supported and rehabilitated. She is a young mother, with a young child. She needs support not ostracism imo 

Splendid idea and I wish the Syrian government all the very best luck with that task.

Is the title "mother" that relevant... she is actually a politically active adult who is willing, and has, transferred her violent beliefs into actions.  The "but she is a sacred MOTHER" bit is not relevant other than the child shouldn't be in an environment where this becomes its belief system.

Agreed.

Women are easily seduced by flatterers and deceivers 

Bernstein....

Thank you for this.

Were it not for your posts I would not understand that my actions and behaviour are identical to the 51% of the population with my chromosomal make-up.

I honestly wonder why people bother to interview wimmin.... they could just pick any one off the shelf for whatever menial work their genetic flaws and weaknesses allow them to handle.

 

No worse than the Ireland situation, and there was no banning there

Syria was a religious war between Sunni and Shiite , which the Shia seem to have won

This poor woman was no doubt a Sunni 

I think if she can get to civilisation and am embassy they will have to help her come home but not sure if they have to pay for the flight. 

It is infuriating that these women are treated as victims of daesh when they were among its most disgusting and vicious enforcers.

It is infuriating that these women are treated as victims of daesh when they were among its most disgusting and vicious enforcers.

1) you know literally nothing about what she was doing over there

2) it is possible to be a victim even if she was actively involved in the regime

This is why women need to be protected from themselves 

It is not possible to be a victim when you left a first world life of privilege to join a regime that tortured local women to death for forgetting a glove.

 

Wot, like John Demjanjuk was a victim of the nazis?

She says she has"no regrets". So that's great, come on in, we don't have sufficient pregnant psychopaths!

Gerry Adams had to move house every night for fear of assassination 

Her choice to leave. She only wants to come back because she feels it's safer for her child, not because her feelings have changed. She hasn't even bothered to lie about that. She can fvck off.

Strutter 14 Feb 19 08:08

Reply

Report

 | 

Let me just check in my bag of botheration on her behalf........

........yes, yes, rather as I thought.........

........... it seems that I would really rather not pay my taxes to support the lifestyle of this person who is violently opposed to my way of life and her soon to be numerous children.

The really unpleasant part of this is that the article says she has lost two children already. 

Wtf should I feel sympathy towards someone who willingly left this country to go and join a terrorist organisation?

"The really unpleasant part of this is that the article says she has lost two children already. "

Very much the author of her own (and her offspring's) misfortune there.

Yes

it does make me think that maybe we let her send her to be born child here if she wants. getting away from that mother would be a mercy (and by the sounds of it a potential life saver)

On the other hand it is formed of the genes of two psychopaths and will probably grow up to revere them so maybe a Syrian passport would be more appropriate

Not that this is terribly fair on Syrians I just don't fancy their fate myaelf

It is not possible to be a victim when you left a first world life of privilege to join a regime that tortured local women to death for forgetting a glove.

Yes it is. People are groomed during recruitment to this terrorist groups.

Wtf should I feel sympathy towards someone who willingly left this country to go and join a terrorist organisation?

presumably you don't feel any sympathy for children who are groomed by paedophiles?

Rhamnousia14 Feb 19 08:58

Reply

Report

 | 

On the other hand it is formed of the genes of two psychopaths and will probably grow up to revere them so maybe a Syrian passport would be more appropriate

I’m a believer in nurture over nature tbh. Genes obviously matter, but are only part of it. Just about every human has it in their blood to be extraordinarily violent, but the vast majority don’t do it.

Wellington, on what basis are you effectively removing this woman's capacity?

She holds views I hold abhorrent, but that doesn't mean that those views were forced upon her.

People hold horrendous views and make poor choices all the time, it doesn't mean they are brainwashed.

 

Return. Imprisonment. Forced adoption.

That's the best I'd wish for her.

What sort of prison sentence do you imagine her getting tho? She will become a domestic recruitore beacon.

Good point Delphi.

Let’s allow her back in and the children can be nurtured by a radical Islamic mother in a nice liberal secular environment like the Sylheti estates of Tower Hamlets.

I think she should be made to go on Strictly.

"so, arfter a lot of thought, ahv decided the refugee camp int that bad"

Wot Wang said.  Either that or "I'm a celebrity".

Some of the crap she's come out with though.  "I wasnt fazed when I saw my first severed head because it was from an enemy fighter and I just thought about what they would have done to a muslim woman"

Erm...

You were 15 when you went over there.  You are now 19 and onto child 3.  The first two died, essentially because of the situation they were in.  

There's pretty much nothing that enemy fighter could have done that was worse than what your own side already did.

She is demonstrating a willing suspension of her critical faculties worthy of tory party membership.

She says she has no regrets about joining a military organisation determined to see the downfall of Western Civilisation and then wants to return to that very civilisation to be looked after and have her baby.

I am usually very liberal on matters of crime and punishment but no sympathy whatsoever in this case.

Its an entirely rational position for her to take. 2 of her children have already starved to death. The prospects for the third being born in a refugee camp are not all that great.

 

This baby is entirely innocent and entitled to a British passport. Why should she not seek to obtain the best rights and treatment she can get for the baby? 

Rational in the sense that it serves her own interests.

Just as it is rational for the UK to tell her to fuck off

No Bernstein. I think it serves the baby's own interests not hers.

She would be separated from it permanently, probably gaoled for a decade and then spend the rest of her life on licence, being "assimilated" and interrogted regularly by MI5, never seeing her child again.

 

The child would get what is only humane and right for a British citizen - food and water, health care, an education and the opportunity to make its own honest way in the world. 

This is a story of grooming and abuse and she should be given the opportunity to receive help...

...the words are those of someone potentially brainwashed and/or worried about still saying the right thing because she is trapped in Syria surrounded by killers.

Actions have consequences. Just because she’s managed to get herself pregnant doesn’t mean she gets to wipe the slate clean.

''Begum is believed to have been grieving the death of her 33-year-old mother in January 2014 of cancer and was targeted by online extremists who had taken advantage of her fragile state.'

She is also hot, and should be allowed in on that ground alone

 

If I was pregnant and in a Syrian refugee camp surrounded by the best evil that territory has produced then I would say whatever was needed to survive... ...have you ever been in one of these camps? We would all do whatever it takes... ...the reporter states that she was alone but I doubt that.

That's a different Begum Bernstein.  Sharmeena Begum left Bethnal Green in December 2014 to go to Syria; Shamima Begum is the one we're talking about, who left the same school with her friends a few months later. 

Wellington, on what basis are you effectively removing this woman's capacity?

On the basis that she was the victim of child groom when she went over there and is quite clearly a victim. Just because she is 19 now doesn't erase the fact that her teen years were effectively spent being brainwashed by a death cult.

if she would do whatever it takes why wouldn't she say "I regret what happened"? I mean maybe because ISIS types are watching her but how is expressing regret worse than begging to go back to the little SAtan?

she's an extremist criminal (albeit the government have said people like her will NOT be prosecuted unless there is evidence of some other crime committed). You might say she was vulnerable but I would argue that is true of almost everyone currently sitting in a prison. We lock people up to keep the majority safe even when it's a wee shame for the criminal.

why wouldn't she say "I regret what happened"?

Because she has spent the formative years of her life being bainwashed. She hasn't been rehabilitated which is what she needs.

What she doesn't need is to be told "this country doesn't want you", because that will only further marginalise her and play into the hands of the people who took her in the first place

Although to be fair this country doesn’t actually want her.

Pretty sure any poll would back me heavily on that one.

Well, she supposedly knew her mind well enough to go off and join ISIS a few years ago, or is the line that she was groomed?

 

Well, she supposedly knew her mind well enough to go off and join ISIS a few years ago, or is the line that she was groomed?

Presumably you think those girls in yorkshire who were the victims of grooming by gangs of Asian men had it coming and were probably gagging for it?

why was she groomed but the young men who went weren't?

Although to be fair this country doesn’t actually want her.

Pretty sure any poll would back me heavily on that one.

There are plenty of bellends in this country, as proven by the Brexit vote

nobody truly has free will and we are all products of our environment, the only reasonable way to approach criminal justice is as a risk mitigation for the general population

that said, I can't see it being very likely that we tell her to gtf

I wonder if she will need "protection" from her former pals

 

No, I think those gangs should be locked up, but if the law permitted more I'd be happy for that.

Is anyone going to get at the facts? I doubt it. The first casualty of war is the truth, obvs.

why was she groomed but the young men who went weren't?

They were. But nice attempt at whataboutery

former pals

They weren't her pals, they were her abusers and if she needs protection, so be it.

I really find it hard to believe that a grown adult can't understand this.

women aren't morons, wellington

she was as culpable as the teenage boys who went

no doubt if she had grown up in a different country to a different family she would be a different person

but she didn't and she was happy to see someone's decapitated head in a bin

women aren't morons, wellington

I'm not saying they are morons. I'm saying she was a vulnerable child who was abused.

she was as culpable as the teenage boys who went

Agreed - ie not culpable at all. They are all victims

no doubt if she had grown up in a different country to a different family she would be a different person

Not sure why this is irrelevant

but she didn't and she was happy to see someone's decapitated head in a bin

She spent her teenage years in a warzone, she clearly has psychological issues, our country should help her with this.

Wellers where do you stand on the brutal medieval violence these nutters rejoice in?

Wellers where do you stand on the brutal medieval violence these nutters rejoice in?

That it is abhorrent. What is your point?

She was only 15 when she joined so I would be willing to cut her some slack if she demonstrated remorse and expressed regret over her actions.

I suppose if she did do so though she would be viewed as an apostate and could be taken out by other members? Not that I think that's why she is demurring ...

Bottom line, what buzz said at 9:10. If she genuinely wants what is best for her child she would agree that's what should happen as well.

My understanding is that anyone leaving the Caliphinate is subject to death, according to the rules

Despite my comment above, I think she has basically been sucked in by a cult, and should be regarded as such.

What she needs is deprogramming, and if that can be achieved then great.  

If it cannot, then I am not sure what I think the answer is, save that I don't think it would be a safe environment for a child.  

I do think, though, that there are enough contradictions inherent in the position she is taking, and in what she is reported to have said, that there is a reasonable prospect of helping her back to a semblance of normality, and I think that ought to be offered.

She went there at 15.  By 15, she had been radicalised enough to take all those steps.  Responsibility for allowing that to happen is not just hers.

Not to invite stoning here but....

.... throughout the 20thC the UK assimilated thousands of die hard communists previously dedicated to smashing the Capitalist/Imperialist system. What happened to them? Some locked up for a bit, mostly just absorbed.

i think a muture democracy (defended by sophisticated police and security services) can handle and assimilate a few hundred Islamic nutters who, like their analogous communist forebearers, are blessed with British citizenship.

*awaits first stone*

And Strutter,  the Asnavore gag is why I lovs your genius, mucho

Communism is not comparable with ISIS tho is it. Ideologically dangerous but there was no day to day normalisation of mutilation, sexual slavery and torture. 

And I don't believe many people died or lost their arms and legs in the UK as a consequence of communist terrorism although perhaps I am wrong.

Totally agree.

They do not threaten the security of the country as did Labour MPs, who marched in the 60s calling for this country to disarm in the face of Brezhnevs rockets

Or Labour MPs who marched in the 1930s calling for this country to disarm  in the face of Hitler's Panzers 

Just so long as they don't get  hold of one of these  W76-2 babies obv

https://www.defensenews.com/smr/nuclear-arsenal/2019/01/28/trumps-new-n…

Can you imagine if she came back and they just released her with a weekly assimilation catch  up review.

She'd be dead in twenty four hours.

Can you imagine if she came back and they just released her with a weekly assimilation catch  up review.

She'd be dead in twenty four hours.

Can we just agree that she (and ISIS as a whole) are much less of a threat to us than our own effing parliament?

"Communism is not comparable with ISIS tho is it. Ideologically dangerous but there was no day to day normalisation of mutilation, sexual slavery and torture..."

I'm not so sure someone in Stalin's Russia circa 1938 would agree as over 1.5m suffered the 'application of physical measures of persuasion'...

She’s a martyr already, and much as hard cases make bad law, I’d rather she wasn’t let back into the UK tbh. I find everything she stands for abhorrent. 

Sorry are you saying that it's the same risk level as someone who is part of a regime that has tortured and killed and maimed British citizens already and wishes to continue to do so? 

Which children's concert did the son of communist sympathisers bomb?

Not sure that state-sanctioned murder, rape and privation through the gulag system is not on a par with - if not far in excess of - anything IS has ever done.

Who’s listened to the Times interview with her? She sounds like a nutter tbh. If she came out with that sort of stuff in the playground you’d expect her to be excluded. 

Yes, bad people, yes, but in terms of representing a current clear and present danger, can we agree on parliament, ERG etc?

Ignoring of course the 5 million Ukrainians who died under the communist  Kagan 

Or the Leningrad holocaust  

Or Chernobyl.  Or the Bay of Pigs incident.  Or the Kursk.  Or K-19.

 

But apart from that, you're absolutely right.

Hearing audio extracts from the Times interview on the BBC this morning, I am with the 'she can fuck right off' camp

Parliament should bring back hanging for treason.

If she is rational enough to understand that the UK is a preferable option for her child, she should be rational enough to understand that living in places such as the UK are preferable to living under IS. So how can it then be claimed that she has been brainwashed and cannot take responsibility for her views on being a part of ISIS?

her continued support for daesh and it's aims is what does it for me, clive 

Though strictly would be good 

I'm still not convinced.

A 15 year old got a bit brainwashed and made a really really sh1t decision.

As a result of that decision, she watched two of her children basically starve to death, and her two school friends die.

I can understand why it might be a little difficult to voluntarily own all of that.

Strutter14 Feb 19 09:13

Reply

Report

 | 

Good point Delphi.

Let’s allow her back in and the children can be nurtured by a radical Islamic mother in a nice liberal secular environment like the Sylheti estates of Tower Hamlets.

Pretty sure you’ll find that that’s precisely not what I said. Otherwise good point.

u sore about something?

Totally agree.

They do not threaten the security of the country as did Labour MPs, who marched in the 60s calling for this country to disarm in the face of Brezhnevs rockets"

Whether we need to be a nuclear power then or now is a very open argument - W Germany, Spain, Italy all had a lot less rockets pointed at them than we did plus they all survived the Cold War.  I really don't think support for one military strategy over another can be compared to fighting for a cause dedicated to destroying Western Civilisation."

 "Given that, to her, this would be about 95% of the UK population I hope she stays put!"

That's official figures.

Probably more like 75 - 80% now. If that.

Onwards to the Kaliphate!

Stick her on an un-inhabited Island off Spitsbergen.

Good idea. Wouldn’t want her to be tainted by the corruption of western society obviously.

I think she should be picked up immediately and flown by private jet back to the UK. She should then be given a new identity so that she cannot be persecuted and guaranteed a life on benefits for her and her child. Furthermore, her Belgium husband should be rescued by the SAS and repatriated back to the UK to join his wife and newborn. They should then be allowed to recruit some  more ISIS sympathisers and continue to terrorise this country. Isn't that what we politically correct and sympathetic UK citizens would expect at the very least as no doubt our government will!

A ton for the Caliphate. 

Enjoying the Clerg-slaps of reality on this thread.