The Irishman

Ok but overlong and a bit samey. MS rehash of previous films

But a creative story tellling of the hoffa days. 

Liked it 

The de-aging was terrible, but the film was very good once i got over the ridiculousness of 75 year-old Joe Pesci calling 75 year-old Robert De Niro "kid"

I’m about two thirds of the way through and enjoying it and like the gentle pace.  It kind of works as mini series if you watch it in hour long chunks.

Agree with it being ok,  but there being nothing new. The much anticipated Pacino De Niro combo is as disappointing as all the other times they've unveiled it. 

It is too long, and agree it is better watched piecemeal

The de-aging is terrible. De Niro's face looks younger but he still walks  around like a 7 yr old with dodgy knees and a bad bacl. And his eyes are blue when he's young and greeny brown when he's old, 

 

The de-aging confuses me as at times Pesci looks older when he’s meant to be younger and none of them ever looks much less than late 50’s.

what I don't get with de-aging is it only succeeded in getting de niro down to an odd looking 50 - surely somebody involved in the film must have noticed this?

It is not a all in one sitting film is it?

 

I mean Gone with the Wind had an interval when that was first shown at the pictures

The age thing ruined it for me I have to say

Also I don't get as much of a boner about mafia stuff as most

I wouldn't try to watch it in one go unless you're a die hard fan of the genre and these particular actors / directors.

It's very slow and not particularly compelling. It is enjoyable to a degree.

I should add, I've only watched 2 hours and have one and a half hours still to go. 

The last 40% might be completely different to the first part....

The bit in particular where he breaks the guy’s hand De Niro moves like an old man.

Agreed 're  the deaging. It was a bit confusing  at times.

 

It's got the feel of a cheap documentary 

 

The hoffa bit was the only thing of interest  

Agreed the "de"-aging is woeful and just a joke in terms of what they were trying to achieve.

Also agreed on strutter's observation of that particular scene - De Niro's old age is *glaring* in his movements - so weird that got through rather than them realising that needed massive re-shooting/working or cutting.

De Niro and Pacino carried the 'old guys teaching the young guys' (both actors and characters) off brilliantly in 'Heat'. They should probably best have left it at that, 'cos this breaks down the fourth wall with a zimmer frame and whacks the audience about with it.

Having said all that, don't think the Hoffa bit is the only thing of interest - all the PR 'de-aging' bollox aside, it's an alright film and still good to see De Niro, Pacino and Pesci there again. Yeah, tired old tropes and it's a mish-mash and probably would have been a far better film with younger actors in the flashback sections, but they're still good at it and there's a thing about the old guard crew back and bringing it, probably for the last time ever. The biggest mistake was allowing their egos and the director to think CGI could seriously get away with persuading the audience that dinosaurs are young(ish) men. Suspend that and it's alright.

 

I did like it though - and it would have been all too easy for Scorcese to give us a bloody, meatball mafia parody of his heyday work.  This had enough blood in it, but was much more nuanced, and the things that stick with you are the bits about his daughter and the selfish quest for redemption without remorse at the end.

Once up a time in America it, ain't but it gets a solid Geoff Lepard 8/10

 

The underlying book is fascinating although there are questions about the truth of some of Sheeran's claims.

I quite like the pace of it personally and wouldn't say it's slow.  I'd read about the movements giving away the fact the actors are old men but I haven't really noticed it.

If you've ever watched how a 90 year old gets out of car, that is the same movement de niro employed to stomp on the guys hand.

I've seen 90 year olds who can get out of cars normally and I've seen my dad who's struggled since his 70's because he never does any exercise.  He does so little walking and the like he now struggles to get up from a chair without using his arms.

It would have been better with a different cast. The holy trinity dragged it down rather than raised it 

Stephen Graham must be buzzing to know he was the stand out actor in a film starring Al Pacino, Robert de Niro, Joe Pesci and Harvey Keitel

I quite liked it but also watched in chunks

Finally finished this, reluctantly. I don't know if it is one of those movies where you get a lot more out of on second viewing but it was very dull first time round.

I think the best thing about it is the second background track for the closing credits, "Remembrance" by Robbie Robertson.

Robbie Robertson has composed music for or collaborated on the soundtracks of Scorcese movies since the 70s including on The Last Waltz,  Raging Bull, the Color of Money, The King of Comedy, Casino, Gangs of New York, The Departed, Shutter Island, The Wolf of Wall Street and Silence, all of which are more interesting than the Irishman.

I'm half way though. Would have been a great film if they'd cast the flashbacks with actors of the correct age. They don't have to be carbon copies, De Niro looked nothing like Brando in Godfather 2 and it would have been far more believable. 

Still, I'm enjoying it in a "greatest hits tour" kind of way. 

His accent's a bit wobbly in the Irishman tho...

But yeah I love him.

He smashed a Scouse one in Line of Duty but yeah maybe New Jersey is beyond him.

you guys are being unduly harsh.

i liked the flick alebit it was a bit too long and at times it dragged a bit. But the central sell of Hoffa was key to the whole thingy

I loved it but observations:

- It is too long. I know the diehard fans are saying online that that's why it was only a limited cinema release hen to Netflix but, even so, it's too long. The first hour could've been a third of that.

- I kept waiting for a scene with the holy trinity on-screen - Pacino, De Niro and Pesci.

- There is one point where Graham's Scouse accent can be spotted!!

- It's very sad - I cried towards the end.

Also

- Agreed, it being a mini series i.e. 4 episodes would've worked better so that's how I watched it.

- Given all the type about the de-aging I expected a lot more. De Niro "back in the war" doesn't look anywhere near young enough. Plus, Pesci never gets de-aged as far as De Niro IMHO.

I can't believe they didn't re-record that bit where he forgot to hide his scouse accent.

Coffers - Pesci in the wheelchair playing bowls - :( :( :( :(

Also De Niro alone at the end and ignored my his fam at Chrimbo

I just found those 2 bits really emotional and sad.

 

??? - I know!!!! It was sooooooo obvs!! I'm gonna have to rewatch it now to find the exact bit where he suddenly leaves behind the US and finds himself back in Scouseland ;) ;)

It was a scene where he was sat down at a desk and I think he must have thought he was still in Line of Duty

??? that's the scene I mean, when he's talking to Jimmy Hoffa.

Arr eh Jimmy, lad

Sounds like he's on fucking Brookside

@Fred @11.19

Surely, Paddy Considine?

”Dead Man’s Shoes” Scene with Gary Stretch.

“Yeah, that was me.” etc.

Great. another opus from Martin Scorcese. Has the epic sweep of Once Upon a Time in America (Sergio Leone) and Goodfellas.

One ignores the CGI de-ageing process and the cast makes the characters believeable. 

 

Come on, let’s call it out for the Emperor’s New Clothes that is, a great big wobbly and overblown Christmas Turkey.

1.5 hours too long, treated the women as mere ciphers and window dressing, the de-aging was laughable, and basically you feel nothing for any of the characters apart from his traumatised daughter. 

And without a very keen interest in things mafia, it really was a bore-fest.

It's rubbish. Very few people get to go out on a high it seems, or are willing to. 

Completely agree , rue but  weirdly it's still getting 96% on rotten tomatoes (although IMDB has a more realistic four starts out of five).

People are often unwilling to pan work produced by very successful artists initially so as not to be seen to be going against received wisdom, it's only later a clearer picture emerges. 

I for one enjoyed the pacing as it suited the aged characters pottering along in later life.

Heh

Why I oughta (said like Grandpa Simpson)

I've now finished it as well and the last 20 minutes was a bit wank.

Watched first hour - was ok - thought I would watch rest but can see myself never getting around to it

I need to rewatch to find the accent clangers from Graham

Will skip the first hour tho as that was a bit pointless

" 7/10. Better than Casino. "

actual tears of laughter here 

Mindhunter series 1 was fab.

Series 2 good, but got a bit bogged down in the family issues with the weird kid, which was all a bit too ‘obvious’...

Mind Hunter very good but agree with Marshall first series better than second. 

I have watched it in three chunks.

Sorry, but it's a bit shit.

What they all said about the age thing.  The crazy face of De Niro in the de-aged bits makes him look like he's been freeze dried then given the Russian Hooker botox look with Rudolf red shiny nose optional sports package.

The story is slow and the time shifts are just annoying as they are made less followable due to the fact that they haven't really aged the actors but put them on a hot wash.

I've realised now it's a bit 'happy valley' in the same way the Polar Express was, but takes longer to realise it as the tech has got better but still not good enough.

Heh - soz - 'uncanny valley'.

'Happy valley' is something else entirely and a great place to spend Christmas.

yes, very "uncanny valley".  Looks quite like de Niro but on balance not actually like any human alive.

" 7/10. Better than Casino. "

actual tears of laughter here

 

 

really? Actual tears? Fuck off. 
 

I didn’t like Casino. 

The ‘apology’ scene in Florida was good. Well scripted. Well acted. I’ll give them that one. 

I think it’s a good film. Had they casted the flashback parts aged correctly it could have been a classic. But then you couldn’t have had Pacino as Hoffa. 

Crude racism 

Portraying Irish and Italians as mindless killers  

Given Hoffa died in 1975 its hard to imagine anyone on here knowing whether or not Pacino portrayed him well.

It is possible to say though that Pacino dialled in a classic Pacino performance. It was nearly as good as his Julia Donaldson work....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DiYNNRU1fRM

Just finished watching it

De Niro has the same expression throughout but still mesmeric

Pesci excellent 

Not quite sure why Hoffas son, being there, did not later blow the whistle 

It’s just another formulaic Hollywood gangster film.  Boring.  
 

There is loads of good film-making going on these days.  No idea why everyone insists on watching this kind of tripe.  

The same expression, although it does work

Confirms that the mob in Chicago swung the election for Kennedy against Nixon, even tho he was Irish

Kennedy had promised them Cuba ,and a hands off attitude.  The mob thought he had reneged on both, which is why they killed him and his brother 

Makes Nixon's piccadilloes over Watergate minor league  by comparison 

Democrats trying to criminalise politics worked with Nixon. 

They are desperate to repeat the same performance with Trump

It would have been better with a different script, cast, producer and writer.  Apart from that, it was ok.

 

For those that have watched it. What is more distracting- the deaged faces and the weird eyes, or the way the older actors move when they are meant to be younger?

There will be a whole movie soon I think with a veteran actor playing a younger version of themselves. Indiana Jones might be good if they could pull it off.

Didn't notice it. Didn't concern me 

The film really centres around Peggy Sheeran, who is the only character showing any moral compass.  I wondered why her part hadn't been enlarged 

Apparently 

Martinin Scorsese has explained the lack of more dialogue for the Peggy Sheeran character.

“I kept asking Steve Zaillian if we can layer her in the story,” the director said. “I decided that she doesn’t have to say anything. You see your father do something like that, I’m sorry. … You see him crush the guy’s hand like that, other kids maybe, but this kid couldn’t take it. She looks at him. She knows he’s up to something. Anna ultimately was amazing in the looks.”

Scorsese said more lines weren’t necessary to capture Peggy’s feelings toward her dad.

“She has one line in the film,” Scorsese added. “There’s something you can’t talk about. She knows it. She knows who she is. He knows she knows. Even when she’s sitting there and the police are talking about Joey Gallo being murdered ‘A lone gunman walked in…’ and you see she’s looking at him"