Inappropriate relationships

with teachers.

Another thread is talking about maths and I had a relationship with my maths teacher at school. I was a border and her house was on school premises. My parents worried about my maths so paid for her to give me extra lessons. I ended up getting an A for maths but my parents never knew the full relationship I had with my teacher.

Some people get Fvcked up by these relationships but I actually don’t look back with disappointment, it was actually really something quiet lovely. She is married now with children of her own and I am still friendly with her, her husband does not know and we never mention it.

But then I saw a story about a year ago about my school and one teacher (the water polo coach) doing the same thing but with 5 boys apparently. So either my old school is a hotbed of teachers shagging pupils or it goes on at all schools regularly.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7746311/Married-teacher-30-dis…

To be fair Zozer, looking at that picture of Ms Viotti and the Water Polo team, the boys at your school do seem fairly hot, so....

She is a stunna.

As for the OP, i knew of one teacher at my school who was dating an 18 year old pupil on the sly. Everyone knew about it, but they didn't make it official until after he left. 

There were 2 known student - teacher relationships in my year group. One pair got married 🤢

Zozer - it is ultimately a matter for individuals. Some people would not be negatively affected by such relationships and some such relationships are not exploitative. Other such relationships clearly are.

I remember reading something about a 15 year girl who slept with David Bowie who was interviewed about it years later and was asked whether it had negatively affected her and said - "Er, no. I got to fvck David Bowie - one of the most interesting and sexy men on Earth at the time".

Ultimately though you have to draw rules and set policies on a one size fits all basis, and the risk of predators exploiting vulnerable children has got to outweigh the downside of allowing some sexually adventurous teenagers to have an experience which they don't regret. 

I think it was more common years ago but not so much now. The sanctions now are pretty serious, irrespective the age of the pupil.

Ultimately though you have to draw rules and set policies on a one size fits all basis, and the risk of predators exploiting vulnerable children has got to outweigh the downside of allowing some sexually adventurous teenagers to have an experience which they don't regret.”

This

I speak as someone who was sexually exploited by a teacher at my school while having mental health problems

Wouldn’t say I was traumatised, but very very bad for teacher to go ahead. Inviting a 15-year-old to your house for a cup of tea after [X] activity he ran to talk about depression and a suicide attempt should not end in orla. Fairly sure he never made a safeguarding report about the suicide attempt either (which he was presumably duty-bound to do?)

The teachers (male and female) at my school got away with a lot because of the number of boarders and the fact teachers lived onsite

Ever thought about reporting him, Jamie? You may not have been the only one

There were 2 male teachers who had ‘relationships’ with female students at my school too. Personally I think it is an institutional thing rather than being equally common anywhere. A willingness by staff to overlook their colleagues’ misdemeanours, a lack of understanding by students of what they should expect from their teachers, a lack of confidence from students that inappropriate behaviour by teachers will be penalised all contribute.  Have to say I think any teacher (whatever gender) who gets into an inappropriate relationship with a student is a scumbag- as others have said it’s a lottery as to whether the student will be fine or scarred for life.

@ Jamie:

That is awful. Mine was a mutual thing and if I said "no" i am sure she would have been ok about it. 

that’s awful jamie - entirely understandable if you do not want to open that can of worms but in an ideal world he would experience consequences however many years after the event. 

Martian - the teacher in question retired within the next two years and moved abroad (I think he was always intending to retire a bit earlier). Subsequent enquiries when I was at university revealed other kids (male and female) he had targeted. 

He was one of, if not the most popular, teachers in the school. Among both pupils and staff. He had won a lot of awards over the course of his career. Extremely well-connected as well in the industry.

I have made a report on the “everybody is invited” website but have no confidence anything will happen if I report to authorities or school.

If he had remained in teaching then I think I think I would feel compelled to report him

something would happen if you went to the police - you were 15?

Good on you for reporting. I suspect the Police would be interested especially given the current media interest in it, so I would definitely reach out. Do you have the details of the other victims? Might they be willing to come forward too? Hopefully he gets what is coming to him

Just because he isnt a teacher, doesnt mean he isnt doing it to other kids

I'm not aware of any such things at any of my schools apart from a girl in my year trying to get into bed with an Australian cricket coach who was on his gap year. Unsurprisingly he turned down a thirteen year old girl who appeared in his room uninvited but he was asked to leave anyway.

I'm reading My Dark Vanessa which is exactly about this. Vanessa, a 15 year old boarding school resident starts a relationship with a 42 year old teacher. 

I'm about half way through so can't recommend, but its written really well and the author does make a good fist of showing the places where its not really clear if the child is making her own decisions or whether she's being manipulated to that end and that when you're in the reeds of the situation, things don't seem as clear as perhaps they are to outsiders.

Isn’t the point that at 15 it’s generally agreed that one is not mature enough to make your own decisions about sex with a much older person in a position of authority??

I speak as someone who was sexually exploited by a teacher at my school while having mental health problems

Wouldn’t say I was traumatised, but very very bad for teacher to go ahead. Inviting a 15-year-old to your house for a cup of tea after [X] activity he ran to talk about depression and a suicide attempt should not end in orla. Fairly sure he never made a safeguarding report about the suicide attempt either (which he was presumably duty-bound to do?)

The teachers (male and female) at my school got away with a lot because of the number of boarders and the fact teachers lived onsite

I am sorry to hear that. 

 

 

 

Aaargh - no, sorry Lex that was out of order apologies 

Having been involved in a similar relationship (not with a teacher) I felt at the time I was making my own decisions, and now feel it was utterly gross and exploitative. 

This has reminded me of an incident back in the day. 

We had a young (female) assistant teacher in the last year of my school. As far as I recall she was either married or had a long term partner, but not sure. She was about 25-27, I think. She was the only young teacher in our school and was taken less seriously as a consequence. Nonetheless, she was very professional and generally quite a serious person. To my teenage self she looked like a proper adult. We weren't close but I was in her classes and I was a good student so we obviously knew each other and got along pretty well. 

Anyway next year I moved to the UK, for Uni. In a bizarre coincidence, in my few first weeks there, I bumped into the teacher there. Apparently she had moved there to study for some sort of masters. Being both surprised at the coincidence, we exchanged emails and then agreed to meet for a coffee. I thought nothing of it really - I was quite socially awkward so anyone who was willing to meet me socially was welcome to do so.

Anyway, I thought it was just a catch up of old friends, sort of. But it became clear almost straight away that it was different. She treated me as "equal" which threw me off. In a very subtle way it was also clear to me that she was "interested". This totally surprised me because it was  unexpected - not least because I had understood she was either married or close to it. Being a young, socially awkward lad, I turned into my usual awkward mode and nothing happened.

Few weeks later I saw her at one of the student clubs being totally pissed and wobbling around the dance floor. We didn't speak then, but it became clear that she was generally seeking to party hard that year, away from her responsibilities. 

Anyway, I wish I had had the courage to go for it. It would have been one of those "it's so wrong and yet it feels so right" situations. The things I could have learned - I could have become a sex god in my freshman year. She was quite attractive too - tall, slim figure, pretty face. Sigh. 

Bit of a non-story, I know. But on topic, so I thought I'd share. 

Dear Bullace, CEO of PIE

I don't need a membership card. 

Yours

 

Lex

Thanks Bullace. I couldn't see from my post why you thought i was pro PIE.

15 year olds generally (policy decision- always) not capable of informed decision re sex with fiduciary but that doesn’t mean that such an encounter is always negative but almost inevitably is (and is usually an abuse of power) and policy needs to deter absolutely.

@ BarryZ

My teacher was exactly the same but slightly younger at 23. Fresh out of Uni having studied maths. I think she was sort of out of step with the rest of the staff as they would have been probably 5 to 10 years older than her. She spent all her time with enthusiastic all male students and then I was in her house taking extra maths lessons, so the opportunity presented itself.

We very good friends now so it was not an exploitative thing at all (at least I have never felt like that) so never felt like she designed it or preyed on me.

Friends of mine suspected something was happening but I never said anything and a friend of mine raised it about 5 years ago at a reunion and I still did not admit it, but that is because she is now married and I do not know if she told her husband about us (I suspect not) and I don’t want her to be viewed as some sort of vamp or predator at the school (she has since left but is still known by many).

She spent all her time with enthusiastic all male students and then I was in her house taking extra maths lessons, so the opportunity presented itself.

Please tell me that the opportunity presented herself after she had served you a cannabis laced onion bhajee. I think, if one is going to be seduced by a hot old teacher, then it should definitely involve both drugs, and onion bhajees. 

That should be older teacher, obviously.

But the drugged bhajee point remains.

I think this kind of thing has always happened and always will.

When I was at school in the 80s there was a French teacher who was late 20s who preyed on two girls in particular (we would have been 14/15 at the time) but was very flirty with all the girls. He also took his girlfriend on the residential trip to France, where he left her in the tent one night and got drunk on the beach with us then went off with one of the girls.

He was young and good looking and we all fancied him. We all knew his behaviour was creepy but it was also flattering. Which is how I suppose they get away with it.

 

Taking the fact that she / you are married now out of the equation.

Would you become intimate with her again and how do you think this suggestion would go down with her if made discretely?

Also describe norks (then and now) and explain to what extent your respective arseholes played a part in your previous sexual encounters.

One of my friends (aged 15) had a relationship with the divorced father of another girl in our year at school.  This girl and my friend had grown up together so the father had known my friend since she was maybe 6 years old. Their relationship went on until she was in her 20s.

I would say that it completely f'd her up psychologically (we are still friends) as the relationship was not, and never could be, an equal one. The sad thing is that at the time, when we were 15/16, we thought it was quite cool. We didn't see that she was completely dominated by him, or that she missed out on a lot of normal teenage stuff because of him. 

So totally agree with what Linda said:

"Having been involved in a similar relationship (not with a teacher) I felt at the time I was making my own decisions, and now feel it was utterly gross and exploitative."

One of my friends (aged 15) had a relationship with the divorced father of another girl in our year at school.  This girl and my friend had grown up together so the father had known my friend since she was maybe 6 years old. Their relationship went on until she was in her 20s.

I would say that it completely f'd her up psychologically (we are still friends) as the relationship was not, and never could be, an equal one. The sad thing is that at the time, when we were 15/16, we thought it was quite cool. We didn't see that she was completely dominated by him, or that she missed out on a lot of normal teenage stuff because of him. 

So totally agree with what Linda said:

"Having been involved in a similar relationship (not with a teacher) I felt at the time I was making my own decisions, and now feel it was utterly gross and exploitative."

Very sorry to read that, Jamie. It really sounds like the most terrible abuse of trust seeing as you had gone to him in distress. 

 

@ hotblack:

Unfortunately I had not got into cannabis then and my “third eye” had not been opened. 

 

“it is ultimately a matter for individuals. Some people would not be negatively affected by such relationships and some such relationships are not exploitative”

I think any relationship like this must raise a presumption of being ‘exploitative’ - there is a huge imbalance of power / control in a teacher / student relationship. It’s all very well saying “well the kid can say ‘no’” but, can they, really? Would they feel able to? Even if they say yes explicitly and even if above legal age of consent, with this kind of potential coercive relationship, do they really have the capacity to say yes - is it really full, free and informed consent?? You could say similar of Trainee / NQ / Partner relationships, especially if it’s in the same team, is it really ethical?