If you want to be happy, don't marry a lawyer

I think most people on this site really really over state the whole lawyer thing. It's just a job 

I'm a lawyer and I'm a fvcking delight to be married to 

I've worked for a firm where all the partners were divorced, had suffered heart attacks, or both.

What kind of weirdo wants to be a law firm partner 

I was married to a lawyer once 

2/10 would not recommend 

I’m really grumpy today, but that’s entirely the fault of my employers and also the universe.

law firm partner husband is definitely a good egg 

"I think most people on this site really really over state the whole lawyer thing. It's just a job"

Mostly yes. That said I don't think any other professional association scrutinises the private lives of its members as zealously as the SRA (other than perhaps the BSB). 

It does make us behave in a weird way and think about thinks normal people don't, which makes us a bit unusual in the laypersons' eyes. 

Nah I just think most people who become lawyers are insecure narcissists 

I only did it because I'm not good enough at maths to be an accountant and lack the drive to be self employed 

What choice did Neville have? He doesn’t have the maths for accountancy nor the smarts for medicine and there’s no other option for a good boy 😂

Anyone able to post the comment referred to in the article?

I am a lawyer 

oh you mean my first marriage. Not the whole time no, but yes latterly 

I'm an amazing wife all my husbands say so 

Re BZ’s comment the FCA have struck off a financial advisor who got a suspended sentence for grooming on the internet. He has appealed it to the upper tribunal. Will create one stakes in the ground re behavior. 

That ridiculous article is what an unhappy marriage to a workaholic is like. It's nothing to do with being a lawyer 

Agree Linda - but I guess the point is that if you work at one of the big City shops - depending on department / team - you are effectively forced to become a workaholic up until the point you choose to leave (/are asked to leave if you are not meeting the workaholic standard). So it has at least something to do with being a City lawyer, if not a lawyer more generally. 

The world is full of working class people doing three jobs and middle class people bearing huge pressure and working evenings and weekends.  It’s only lawyers who seem to complain about it so much.

These drivel scare stories have been squeezed out for years 

often by jealous penniless journalists who weren’t good enough for the bar or law firms

they end up worth nothing in their 40s and doctor articles to justify their life

someone recently said to me money doesn’t buy happiness. Rich people can be miserable. But so can poor people. And I sure as hell would rather be a miserable rich person than a miserable poor person.

Quite

also there’s my banter of the male sex and their ability to marry up in aesthetic beauty and down in age in recognition of their money and status. It’s real.

 

It very much is something to do with being a lawyer. I’m a lawyer end also a fun guy to be around but that’s also because I’ve never taken being a lawyer remotely seriously, something which is starting to limit how much further I’ll go in it.

I'm also a super fun guy to be around. Therefore 2/2. Looks like the lawyer stereotype is very much the exception, rather than the rule.

Like British people who complain about the weather when it's far worse elsewhere. It's not Dubai, but it's not Iceland.

Everyone on here says how embarrassed they are to convey their profession. However, everyone I meet says wow, you must be a very clever guy. Or just "oh wow, that is so hard to get into", "oh wow, *THAT* firm", and the lawyers think "oh wow, the man of my dreams who understands what I go through and just *gets* me...and he's at a better firm than me, he can take of me when preggers".

Women want to come back to my apartment to sleep with me just to see my apartment. There are other reasons of course. Being able to say they've slept with a lawyer. Being able to say they've slept with the best of the best. Sleeping with such a clever man - and the feeling that gives them, that such a clever man deemed their intellect worthy of interacting with, worthy of sleeping with. 

I honestly say this on dates. Come back and see my apartment, it's super nice. I have this super deluxe coffee machine. I have a home gym. People on here think I'm joking, and perhaps some women mistake it for sarcasm, but i honestly say this with a straight face, and it works.

"Getting a B in GCSE Maths doesn't matter daddy, I got to sleep with a big balls city lawyer with loadsmoney". That's what they think.

I love the way lawyers think they’re too innumerate to be accountants.

Firstly, most people in city law are, merely by virtue of being clever, more numerate than 95% of humans and probably still 75% of accountants. Which brings me to point 2. What makes you think accountants are numerate? Most of the ones I know are History grads.

There may be good reasons to be a lawyer rather than an accountant (can’t think of any mind you) but lawyers lacking numeracy isn’t among them.

Also heh @ the idea that u have to be especially clever to be a doctor.

“walking your children to school through meadows of wild flowers”

AND THEN YOU MEET MICHAEL STONE

I personally very much enjoy reading stories about miserable lawyers. I do think that city firms/large corporate firms seem to do something weird to peoples souls. I am a different person now than I was before I started (and not in a good way). I am still pretty junior but even at my level I can see the start of the process.

I think the pressure, the hours are obviously not great but a bigger thing is just the weird culture in law firms which I think results from the fact that you don't work 'for a company'. You're in fact a huge number of tiny competing firms working against eachother. Everyone is competing against eachother for matters, for good work and for chances to talk to people more senior to you. You help others but only insofar as it won't make them competition, which really means you don't help them at all. You can't betray any vulnerability to anyone, even people at the same level as you. You're suspicious of everyone.

Its also intensely hierarchical giving you an attitude to the world thats nearly like coming out of the army. At least in my firm - paralegals didn't speak to trainees, the different ranks of trainees didn't speak to eachother, and so on and so forth. You had a really defined sense of who was above and below you at a really granular scale that I don't think is replicated elsewhere.

The upshot of this is you end up not with a company of people working towards a common goal, but with a large number of people working alone together. I don't know if all jobs are like this, but it does seem to be a particularly toxic way of working which I'm sure can only spill out into other relationships

Also heh @ the idea that u have to be especially clever to be a doctor.
 

True. Suspect the same is true of lawyers but I don’t know for sure 

Is there any professional job which requires you to be “clever”? Management consultant? Software engineer? Genuinely have no idea.

Medicine is definitely the path of least resistance for people who did well in school but with no other particular merits to plop into a reliable high-earning job.

medicine requires WAY more effort than law 

law is great for risk averse people who are comfortably on the aspergers spectrum tho

Habibi that's def true re city law and a reason I got out. I'm now very much part of a team at a regional firm and would never go back.

The academic bit of a medicine degree is basically a succession of GCSEs according to my FiL (a GP). It’s a lot of work but none of it is massively stretching to the point it requires Doogie Howser 

Suspect the same is true of lawyers but I don’t know for sure

this is true

the idea that lawyers are all super smart is madness

some are. some are kittens (ofc usually the ones on the other side at any given time)

there is something to the idea that the way the industry is structured (in an hours/billing salary/equity partner way) does something weird to lawyers who are super into progressing

"Medicine is definitely the path of least resistance for people who did well in school but with no other particular merits to plop into a reliable high-earning job."

I think both medicine and law attract people who are good at exams but not necessarily good at thinking critically or independently.

there is something to the idea that the way the industry is structured (in an hours/billing salary/equity partner way) does something weird to lawyers who are super into progressing

What, you mean other industries are not obsessed with quantity rather than quality? 

Yes, I lived with a lot of medics at both Universities I attended, and my little brother is also studying medicine. All of them. say , none of it is very difficult at all, its just the sheer volume of stuff you have to get through, and even that is fine as long as you keep up and attend. Apparently if you think you can go in once a week, for a few weeks and catchup at a later date, that won't end well.

My Mother , and her two sisters are Drs, and of course they say " Ah it was different in their day!" I think they spent 6/7 years at Uni back in the day, before they became House Officers.

medicine requires WAY more effort than law 
 

This might be true day-to-day, but basically all you need for a lucrative career in medicine is to plod through medical school, foundation and GP training. You don’t actually need to compete very hard at any stage if you don’t want to

Of course if you want to do plastic surgery or something it’s different.

@Chimp, what about Orthopod Surgeons. Is it still true it is considered the arse end of surgery, and as long as you can build a sideboard .... That was actually told to me half in jest by a very prominent shoulder specialist . That said they seem to be laughing all the way to the Bank, with their private practice and Medico legal work. Whiplash report that will be £750.00 please. Consul takes 20 mins. Day in court as expert witness, 2k thanks

This particular orthopod surgeon had an incredible house in Hampstead.

Ortho is anecdotally pretty competitive. In general, competition maps on pretty well to how well you can do out of private practice. Personally, I could never be ar5ed with the lifestyle of a surgeon and doing the same half-dozen surgeries for the rest of my working life.

Probably a lot of gunshot wounds or stabbings in London. Sounds like hard work with little opportunity for private practice. Good if you like excitement but probably starts to pall in middle age +

"Getting a B in GCSE Maths doesn't matter daddy, I got to sleep with a big balls city lawyer with loadsmoney". That's what they think.
 

Why are you shagging 15/16 yr olds?

I think trauma surgery is generally done as an informal special interest in the UK, I don’t think there is a formal training programme. Could be wrong

USA style trauma surgeons don’t really exist in the U.K. You have general surgeons with an interest in trauma and ortho surgeons with an interest in trauma. The former do the squishy bits and the latter the bony bits. 
 

I agree entirely with what Chimp said. I did seriously think about surgery for a few years and did my initial membership exams (MRCS completed during F2, which used to be a prestigious thing to have done) and the basic training. I just CBA with it and didn’t even apply for a reg job, much to the surprise and annoyance of the ortho consultants who’d mentored me.

Medicine is a great career for plodders, Tim nice but a bit dims, women with issues, and some real geniuses. I know them all. Not quite sure where I fit in. 

I can't believe the nice but dim types would get into medical school, let alone graduate. I have a bright friend who suffered years of rejections before getting onto medicine at Kings.

Well all you need to get onto a law degree is a working pulse. Not the same for medicine.

We have it easier than some places. Medicine is so hyper competitive in India many go to places like Russia for study.

I did a LLM a few years ago. I think there is a lot of similarity between the degrees and the graduates TBH. 

Are you still thinking about switching to management consulting Crypto? You would probably be pretty competitive with Oxford medicine, MRCS, MRCPath and an LLM. They love lots of letters after people’s names

@ REK, My understanding is KCL is the Uber so to speak of the Medicine, Dentistry and Nursing degrees?

 

@ Crypto, interesting my mother says the same, she is a Co Clinical lead general trauma surgeon ,to the extent it formally exists in the UK. She has a sub speciality in something, she has tried to explain it to me , but I get bored in trying to decipher what she is on about. She teaches trains a lot, I guess as is befitting of someone of her age.

 

I cannot workout the extent to which she is joiking, when she says " We put you together, keep you alive until a proper Dr/Surgeon , see you!!?"

being a lawyer means being good at busking it with confidence - I have msc(econ), llm and an msc in ecology - basically I am good at learning to the exam

but I have just been offered my second potential field job of the summer without having to apply because I am a general all round ledge ...

I would not dispute that King’s is good but not sure what Uber refers to here, I’m assuming it means exceptionally elevated in status or reputation. I think there is still a hangover from the days when the schools were separate and Guy’s held itself to be the supreme place for medical and dental education. Self praise is no recommendation  and my own experience of “Guy’s Men” is very mixed in terms of ability but universal in terms of self regard (arrogance.)

I was arrested for busking at Waterloo station in 1979.  I was given a written caution, which was sent to me at school, and it is on a wall in my study.

Cool story, I know.

Kings, or Strand Poly, as it was known when I was at the LSE

She sounds very senior, editda. Not many women in that kind of surgery so even more of an achievement. 
 

Yes Chimp I am. I want to CCT in forensic pathology before anything else though. I genuinely love that area. 

Retired, surgeon in North West now. A friend was Dean of King’S Dental School a few years back and even then the Guy’s distinction was very much alive.

 

I like these threads. Utterly validates my life choices.

The one I always heard was You can always tell a Barts man but you can’t tell him much. 

Yes Chimp I am. I want to CCT in forensic pathology before anything else though. I genuinely love that area. 
 

Nice, good call. I am still interested in leaving internal medical training, either this year or next. With time served I could complete GP training by Feb 2023. 

Honestly mate IMT is the biggest pile of horsecrap in this job and it’s got some competition. Do you really want to be a med reg and the bitch of everyone in the hospital from gormless ED locums to orthopod F1s who’s patient has a cough and can’t get their reg to come? 
 

You’re a smart bloke who knows a bit of how the world works. Just do GP and become a principle in a few years and live like a king on dub tun or even quarter lion in Newcastle. 

Yeah, IMT was a huge error tbh. As you say, GP in the north of England isn’t a bad life!

chimp, Excuse my stupidity, why does it take so long to train to be  a GP? Is it somrthing you can do early on following graduation. Not long ago, I attended my GP, and she asked if I minded the (very fit)  GP registrar observing. Sure no problem, thats a trainee GP right?

She wasn't even 30 but christ, not only fit as F, but had a nice personality, very nice.

Is there a doctor's version of RoF? Enjoying this medical banter v much

chimp, Excuse my stupidity, why does it take so long to train to be  a GP? Is it somrthing you can do early on following graduation

 

You can be a fully trained GP 5 years post-grad (2 years foundation training, 3 years GP training) so 27-28 if you smash all the way through

Is there a doctor's version of RoF? Enjoying this medical banter v much

 

There is actually (it's called doctors.net) but u need a GMC number to register

chimp

do u reckon I should become a medic? And if so, what kind.

roles where you don’t have to touch humans would be preferred

I don't think so m7. Upside isn't there for you. Would take you 6+ years to get anywhere, 2 of which would be spent at the absolute lowest rung in the hospital setting. With your background in law and consulting I expect you would be able to enter healthcare organisations at a strategy or policy level - more interesting, better-paid and no night shifts.

I would probably rather do that kind of work than direct clinical care tbh

There is actually (it's called doctors.net) but u need a GMC number to register

Christ imagine having to give your SRA ID to register on here.

Chimp if a newbie went on yours and the other doctors said describe norks, what would be the outcome?

Years ago it was a brutal place. Not so much now and filled with whingers. 

I’m not sure this place would be much different if you had to give your SRA ID (or law soc student member number) to register tbh