i am irked that according to public health friend

UK Government genuinely appears to be doing nothing on testing or anything else

they are wheeling around hoping things will die down

the "what's the point of testing anyway" line is being fed out as a defensive move to cover this

I just think david Cameron would have handled this better I really do

i mean he had a less insane cabinet also

M4, the only Churchillian thing about Boris is the belly. 

but - mass testing is a waste of time. 

testing NHS - yeah get on with it. 

But the rest of us? pointless. wont save a single life. 

 

wibble the idea os that they use tests to find out where it is and quarantine the affected people

then everyone else can go about their day

NOW I appreciate that this plan has flaws but

does what we are doing now seem better?

basically i think our best hope is something half-assed that will distract the mob enough to justify an end to the madness

have just been reading about the effect of isolation on the human mind

it is not good

We are weeks too late to do that. Testing and contact tracing is pointless when there is this many people with it. 

Also - we would never be able to test everyone and anyway you miss all those people who catch it after they get tested and think they are in the clear and go on to lick people's faces. 

not according to the government advisors

we could test millions and get a sense of it

i mean I know i know i know

basically i think if they don't concede that this is all fucked and go back to cocooning we might as well burn things down

OTOH testing is the only way to actually understand the severity of The One True Illness

all health resourses should be put into saving lives not counting stuff/ 

My dear fellow, every healthcare decision is an economic one. Do rejoin us in reality. 

Clergham I agree with you absolutely. It’s been two weeks they have been banging on about “ramping” up tests ending up at 250k a day , and what , nothing ?

the reagents story and the lack of it is nonsense the trade body that represents these people said their is no lack of it so more lies from the government. Just like they lied 2 weeks ago when they said they were talking to all the major supermarkets to ensure supply chains weren’t fucked . All the supermarkets put up people saying they had no contact from the government whatsoever, more lies .

now watch today’s press conference they will say a lot about nothing . Nothing new and more prevarication and lies . At the very large hospital my mother is a senior consultant at she tells me only the paramedics have been tested thus far . It’s a fucking abrogation of duty , and what for ?

the people that want all the testing also want all the home detention

shh ??? dont go throwing FACTS around, what we want is some SHOUTING about how THEY NEED TO DO MORE! 

 

They should at least be testing a random sample of a few hundred asymptomatic people a day to get figures from which they can extrapolate a likely figure for total infected. 

They should at least be testing a random sample of a few hundred asymptomatic people a day to get figures from which they can extrapolate a likely figure for total infected. 
 

agreed

The key question is why weren’t we all having this conversation at the start of February?

Of course its too late to fix now.

Opposition and media (and Rofferati) should have been screaming about this sort of thing first week of February.  Not much point holding the stable boy to account now.  The horse is long fucking gone.

Ps - I confess I personally didn’t specifically call for testing kits as I hadn’t really appreciated how important they were. Mine was more of a general cry of “why arent the borders shut and what the fuck are we doing about this?”. It seems the answer in general collective terms was that as a country we were doing nothing like enough.

Why on Earth was no-one in a position of power authority or knowledge publicly shouting for this to be resolved back then? Why was no-one given a platform to do so?

Everyone thought it was just bad flu then tho
 

hindsight is 20/20 and all that

 

Interesting to see the Ipsos MORI polling which showed only 4% of those polled thought the gov had gone “too far” with their measures. Presumably most of those ROF

yeah I was honestly surprised by that Pingu (though I think the question was whether or not lockdown was “too early” unless there was another I missed). must be reading this place too much and overestimating how representative it is.

CW - yes you are correct that in hindsight it should have been taken more seriously by everyone and there were interventions that should have been made some weeks ago that would have made a big difference now. however the chance of us closing borders in early February was always 0 - seriously advocated by virtually nobody, against WHO advice and a step taken by no other major economy. would it have helped? yes looks like it. were we ever going to do it? no so little point banging on about it now.

'Everyone thought it was just bad flu then tho'

No. Everybody did not think that.

But everyone who thought different (on here) was accused of being a doomsday alarmist sitting back getting off on the potential number of deaths.

So...

'must be reading this place too much and overestimating how representative it is.'

RoF having a higher than average percentage of self important entitled khunts is not at all surprising Chimp.

 

“But everyone who thought different (on here) was accused of being a doomsday alarmist sitting back getting off on the potential number of deaths.

So...”

point rather proven by the very evident smug self satisfaction of your post (and the deliberate misrepresentation of some opposing views)

in fairness to the government, they are clearly trying to improve testing

they're not doing so very competently but they are trying

take anything doctors or public health people say about the government with an extreme pinch of salt.. they have an agenda like everyone.

Canary Worf02 Apr 20 22:05 ReplyReport

The key question is why weren’t we all having this conversation at the start of February?

Of course its too late to fix now.

Opposition and media (and Rofferati) should have been screaming about this sort of thing first week of February.  Not much point holding the stable boy to account now.  The horse is long fucking gone.

Canary Worf02 Apr 20 22:10 Reply|  Report

Ps - I confess I personally didn’t specifically call for testing kits as I hadn’t really appreciated how important they were. Mine was more of a general cry of “why arent the borders shut and what the fuck are we doing about this?”. It seems the answer in general collective terms was that as a country we were doing nothing like enough.

er, i think u will find that some of us were saying that mass testing was working early in the discussion (not early feb, but when it was obviously successful in sk, taiwan etc in early march) and pointing out that blanket lockdowns (closing borders really just amounts to the same thing) r effectively pointlessly ott punching in the dark with no idea how worthwhile the benefits r vs the costs

the problem was that u and guy were too busy telling us to shut up, stop arguing and to get hysterical so u ignored that

mass testing now is critical, but not really worthwhile with the antigen test any more other than amongst health care pros. we need mass antibody testing, work out who is clean and let these people free asap along with those who r not high risk

I think Hancock's announcement yesterday that at this stage they have basically turned to industry and gone "HHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLP" gives you a decent indication of what they have achieved themselves so far.

Let us not forget on the SECOND daily annoucement, Bodger said an antibody test was almost available.  I can't see any basis on which he could have made that statement in good faith.

it is lies to keep the proles quiet

the whole thing is appalling

"  I can't see any basis on which he could have made that statement in good faith"

The best working assumption with bodger is that absolutely nothing he says has any basis, other than what he thinks it expedient to say in the moment 

can't wait to see all the junk model buses he's made during his isolation. Perhaps we could have an online exhibition. 

I can't see any basis on which he could have made that statement in good faith.

Extreme ignorance?

I mean we've all been there when someone commercial massively underestimates the cost, time and practicalities of something they're asking us to do that they really think is quite simple because they simply don't understand what is involved.

Though it is BoJo so outright lies is probably equally possible.

I certainly never would have told anyone advocating testing to shut up. Clearly it’s important.

My point being a simple one: it currently appears as though a lot more should have been done in various regards a lot earlier. Especially if properly shutting borders was impossible (which tbh I would dispute - its effectively happening now anyway; just after the horse has bolted). I accept that most almost all govts have failed in this regard, though I consider that a pretty lame excuse.  

We cannot really judge actions in the round until afterward - but there will of course be a dispute over history and I don’t want the ‘there was nothing to be done for two months crew’ getting a free shot at writing the first draft of it. Seems to me at the moment there was a lot more that could have been done. The fact we are arguing about testing capacity now rather than 2 months ago - points to at least one thing that could have done 2 months ago - proper media scrutiny of govts readiness plans.

the people that want all the testing also want all the home detention

I want testing and I don't want home detention. 

Herd immunity only answer now

Just follow Swedish model and all go back to work

Only 1 in 1000 of cases need hospitalisation

Only 0.0025% of that 1000 die

Mass hysteria 

shutting the borders would have been utterly pointless and only some1 wanting to try to find something that should have been done due to an inability to resist the human mentality of we must control things would keep banging on about it

futile

we were arguing about testing capacity nearly six weeks ago. u just ignored it because ur focus was on justifying urself

Or even just one month ago - when it became obvious even to blowhards on tinternet like us - that testing was critical and being applies succesfully in other countries.

Its April now. Testing was clearly important from early March. And to many experts was clearly important even earlier.

Tb clear - this is not specifically a criticism of current govt - it’s a wider criticism of our entire political and media structure. Though clearly I am very suspect of the effectiveness of the govt response.

Everything has been too slow since late January.

Kimmy03 Apr 20 09:48 ReplyReport

the people that want all the testing also want all the home detention

I want testing and I don't want home detention. 

it’s an absurd cognitive dissonance isn’t it

he’s totally forgotten that it was the ppl arguing against his advocacy of blind blanket lockdown who were literally arguing for testing instead weeks ago, and he just appropri7s that idea in order to self-justify 

Reply

Report

...

Its April now. Testing was clearly important from early March. And to many experts was clearly important even earlier.

korrekt and when we were arguing this a month ago u were ignoring us and telling us we should get on board with pointless mass lockdowns

Tbh - I have too much else on to plan the details of our response. My key issue is that not enough was being done sooner. Testing is it would seem one key example of that.

Shutting borders more effectively would also have been useful. For a start it would have given thickoes like me and in our national media (and it would seem our current government) - a bit longer to work out how important testing was and to make sure kits were available.

Even if the disease was ultimately unstoppable (and at the time we did not know that; and tbh until we see what happens next in China we still don’t know that) - it probably would have bought more time - which is a precious commodity in this sort of crisis.

If when this is all done there is piles of evidence showing the govt launched plans from late January - then fair enough. There will still be an interesting debate about transparency - as there was not enough discussion of detailed plans from the start of February (and hardly any in the mainstream media). Anyway those moments are history now, so let’s wait and see. 

The issues now are how and when we lift the lockdown. I think we all agree we want as much testing capacity in place as soon as possible.

i don't give a shit about testing, but lockdown needs to be lifted

Delphi - I’m sorry if I ignored u on this point. That was a mistake on my part.

Not because I disagree with testing - but because i was trying to make a more general point and probably not reading your posts carefully enough. There are a lot of posts and I don’t spend THAT long on here...

I stand by my view that it currently appears that more could have been done generally - and that we should have fought a much tougher battle to contain it.

I don’t think we have failed here relative to other western countries. We are behind many countries ( such as Italy France and Spain, and the US) - as we were doing a great deal of testing on a per capita basis. But compared to some Asian countries and Germany we don’t appear to have done enough.

Delph - there’s a difference between arguing for strong early containment measures, especially at the borders, and a total internal lockdown.

Apart from the first couple of weeks where I was astounded by the widespread complacency across society (not specifically anyone on here, although some seemed remarkably determined not to recognise the issue), my posts have been pretty measured. I suspect you arent recalling my position entirely fairly because I was notably vocal in late Jan and early Feb.

Anyway have a good morning m8. I have a decade’s worth of DIY to catch up on...

‘point rather proven by the very evident smug self satisfaction of your post (and the deliberate misrepresentation of some opposing views)’
 

what point would that be Gannicus? 

That you’re utter khunt? 

That you’ve got a wide on for mass death, suffering and destruction. HTH. 

And as for the whole deliberate misrepresentation of others views... that’s the fvcking pot calling the kettle black. 
 

 

Das blaue Hufeisen a little irritable today

Victim of nagging?