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Hypothetical J17 question

Entirely hypothetical as still too early for all that but came up in conversation last night.

If getting married one day was important to you but your partner thought it was unnecessary and  balked at any expense connected to it and made contemptuous "jokes" about the excesses of your hypothetical wedding one day... well... you couldn't really marry them could you? Knowing that they would literally be doing it to tick a box and they weren't really bothered? How can you have a day that is meant to be special and meaningful if it means nothing to the other person? It's just a fooking non-starter isn't it?

I think the perception is of other people's weddings. Marriage is different from a wedding. There is something quite lovely about making a formal public commitment to someone else. It might just be that the meringue style celebration is what puts them off. Maybe move away from the WEDDING side and focus on the marriage bit.  Do they want a marriage?

How can you have a day that is meant to be special and meaningful if it means nothing to the other person? 

Weird thought process. I do loads of stuff with the wife / child that i don't give a fook about but i know they like. Same as when i drag my wife to the rugby / cricket, just because she's actually hating it doesn't stop me having a grand old time. It's basically what you do when in a relationship.

What Welly said in essence.

If you're not prepared to do something in a relationship for no reason other than to make the other person happy you probably shouldn't be in a relationship.

You've been seeing this bloke for what 3 or 4 months and u r already discussing weddings?

His bunny boiler awooogah must be internally deafening...

 

Wang, he is the bunny boiler, not me.

He said only a couple of days ago that we will wait because I want to wait. If I want to crack on with kids and marriage and buying a big house together now, he's up for that.

If getting married one day was important to you but your partner thought it was unnecessary and  balked at any expense connected to it and made contemptuous "jokes" about the excesses of your hypothetical wedding

You need to share with ROF the details of the hypothetical wedding so we can properly judge/mock.

I think it is usually the woman who wants the big extravaganza and the guy is all eyeroll (but secretly I think quite enjoys the pomp and ofc the day of symbolically celebrating his working penis).

if he will agree to it then I think that is all one can ask for

but on the other hand if you are feeling gut rumblings you should interrogate them a bit

I'm missing the issue here.  You can't expect someone to share your views on every ceremony.  You do however share views on wanting to be together and he is willing to adapt to make you happy. That is good.

I'd be more concerned about not knowing each other well enough to plan a future than your differing opinions on the ceremonies that future includes.

For a chap weddings fall under the general umbrella of public displays of affection. Accordingly, they make him feel uncomfortable, especially when combined with the notion of paying through the nose for it. 

I think it’s her bunnyboiler awoogah tbf, he sounds like he is a proper nester and frankly doesn’t care who with so long as she is shaggable and age appropriate to want kids.

Meh, if he comes around to actually loving you he will want the biggliest Most meringue wedding ever.  Done it myself.

if he isn’t bothered and it’s actually important to you then you do need to dump the ticket because nothing will poison a marriage more over time than a constant bitchfest about how the wedding should have gone.

hth.

Remember you always have the Cornwall option! ;) 

another thought I have is that adult relationships are usually about disappointment of the young you (but also hopefully happiness in ways young you couldn't have imagined)

in other words, are you willing to stick to your child's image of adult life at the cost of what's on the table now?

(this is not a loaded question - maybe the wedding thing is just your brain's way of telling you he's not right in a bigger picture way)

He is not remotely fussed about marriage and sees it as just a piece of paper and an ostentatious display. He wants a life together and a big house in the country and children.

When I first mentioned marriage it was in part to slow him the fvck down when he was getting very animated about children in week 6. I said I'd want to be married first before having children thinking this would naturally buy some time and he seemed totally on board, but presumably because it was a means to an end. But it is important to me. It's something I've always thought I would do and would like a traditional wedding one day.

Weddings cost. If he is not really bothered and doesn't want to spend anything on it he'd just be resentful and I don't want that. But on the other hand I'm not interested in a cheap as chips affair either. And yes, I know that the marriage part is more important than the wedding. But he's asking me to give up my life in zone 2 to move out to the country and buy a small holding so that he can do chickens and bees and that is something I'm willing to entertain. But the one thing that bothers me and it's all snide jokes and disdain.

 

(faod I don't mean your dream is the dream of a child, just that it's a dream you;ve had since a child but maybe it is ok to let it go in favour of a new dream? or maybe not only you know)

is it possible that you are not fully that into him but he is available and enthusiastic and it is a time in your life when you feel ready and want him to be the right one?

if so then can him I say.

but wtf do I know; nothing.

Let's assume you are definitely unreservedly madly in love with this man and want to spend your life with him.  

Is a big hoo ha wedding really a deal breaker that you would be willing to break up over?

perhaps he feels he is already compromising plenty by being prepared to get married at all, given it isn't important to him?

Sorry. The last sentence made little sense. The wedding thing is the one thing that'd I'd particularly like and he's just taking the piss and looking down his nose at it.

It's not a deal breaker I would break up over. But if he's going to be shitty about it then maybe I'd rather not do it. But then it makes me feel like I'm being an idiot being so accommodating on all the things he wants to do.

And clergies, it's possible. I think it's just been moving so quickly that I haven't had much of a chance to catch my breath. Also this is a very different relationship to the type I'm used to and maybe that is what's throwing me

He needs to understand that it's important to you and compromise.  Being sneering/contemptuous is not helpful.  It does not bode well for the future if he does not consider your feelings on the issue to be important.  Do you value marriage as an institution or as an event though?  If the former, he's being a dick.  If only the latter, he may have a bit of a point.

I think when one is used to jerks it is easy to think "this guy isn't a jerk so he must be the right one!" when it isn't always the case. But then maybe he is the right one and it just takes some getting used to.

Certainly there will always be things people who are deeply in love disagree over (even on this topic - I know several couples who haven't married because of disagreements or discomfort over certain aspects of how married life would be).

re the farm thing, I think it would be sensible to try that for a bit before making any permanent decisions (you might love it, you might end up on superstrength antidepressants for the tedium) but understand that's not really feasible.

if you are confident you love him and he loves you and the idea of splitting up is awful then I think things will work out and you just need to trust in that.

If making a public commitment to be with you forever, in front of your family and friends, doesn’t mean anything to him, then perhaps infidelity and divorce won’t either ...

oh come on, elffi, that's a facile analysis

you can love a person completely and think a big wedding is silly

the trick is being guided to see that love might override personal views

(although in his shoes I don't actually know what I would do - I would be embarrassed to have a big wedding and it would really stress me out to have one and then I might think "if they loved ME they wouldn't make me do this")

Part of the problem is the types of love I've had in the past have not been remotely healthy and tapped into my abandonment, self esteem and insecurity issues and have been surrounded by anxiety. Since I did all the therapy stuff I now steer clear of obvious duds that would make me feel like that. But safe, steady, reliable love is a different emotion that I'm not really familiar with. There is less of the intensity and passion that you get with a wrong un. 

hmmmmm I don't think you should doubt yourself too much tbh

do you love him? I know people say love is an action not an emotion but I would say that is somewhat bollocks otherwise you could act love on anyone convenient when clearly you can't

I honestly can see myself in his shoes in so many scenarios (being jokey about something and then realising it's profoundly upsetting to the other person and being mortified - hello, Catholic Mass) so I cannot rush to judge this. as long as you can both be open about it it will be ok.

"But safe, steady, reliable love is a different emotion that I'm not really familiar with. There is less of the intensity and passion that you get with a wrong un."

this is true. Reliable is better in every way (the intensity and passion wears off with a wrong un believe me)

I think if he saw this thread his bunny boiler alarm would be going awooga alright.

FWIW this reads to my cod psychology mind that you want to be but you're just not that into him and are looking for something to treat as a deal breaker. If you were really into him (and are older than 12) the fairytale wedding thing would not be as big a deal as you are making out.

It's not the fairytale wedding aspect which is the issue.  It's his not being respectful of something which clearly matters to Meh.  Still, if he's feeling guilty, that at least shows that he has a conscience.

Whilst I do appreciate that this is early days I'm pretty sure if he's going to ask he'll have done it by the end of this year because he wants to have kids next year and kids come after marriage.

Right now I think I'd say no.

If you truly love him and he truly loves you then you'll talk this all out and reach a compromise.

Do not expect him to just roll over and go for everything you want.

With a fair wind love will out and you'll both be having a grand old time in an Angus Steakhouse or Garfunkel's for your reception.

Did you resolve the birthday celebrations argument?

You like to make a fuss about things that are important to you, he seems disdainful about everything and seems to keep expecting you to compromise...

like the birthday thread there are some red flags here...

hope you are able to sort it out

 

I also think the whole man does big gesture "proposal" thing is surely a bit outdated these days - if you've talked about getting married and agreed to get married you are engaged. 

I am clearly old and unromantic tho 

I have never understood the "waiting for him to ask" thing (not so much in this case since he seems the driver of it all but where friends have been desperate to get hitched but are just waiting for the go ahead)

We went away for my birthday. But we were going away anyway. My bestie had asked him if the B&B did any nice little "in-room touches" which prompted him to get some bubbly waiting for us which was sweet. It wasn't particularly birthday-y but it was nice enough. He is still asking me to tell him what I want for my present but again, it feels like box ticking shite so I'd rather he not now. He does not seem willing to just go and find something that he thinks I might like. I suggested maybe something nice that we can do together and he seemed interested so who knows really.

Clergs, given that it would be me who wanted to get married and him what didn't, I think it should be for him to ask if he so chooses.

However he does keep saying it's all up to me and I just tell him when the time is right and if I want he'd "put a baby in me" when he gets back from Spain. It is 100% my decision. Unsurprisingly, I have put him off for a while.

it sounds a bit confusing because he says the relationship matters but you want marriage and somehow the responsibility for wanting marriage is placed on you?

I have got to say that I think "put a baby in you" guys all need to get in the sea and I am using all my strength not to type DUMPHIMOMGFFSYUCK

 

I think there is something a bit wrong with him to be so cavalier about making a new person with someone he has only known a short while

that is my gut

but also I am supportive of love so ignore that

But he's asking me to give up my life in zone 2 to move out to the country and buy a small holding so that he can do chickens and bees and that is something I'm willing to entertain.

HEH @ you being willing to entertain him with the birds and the bees.

My bestie had asked him if the B&B did any nice little "in-room touches" which prompted him to get some bubbly waiting for us which was sweet.

 

Errr, not sure how your friend unsubtly flagging it up and him then taking the (sounds like most unsubtle) hint was sweet. If he'd done it without being led by the hand by your mate then yeah, maybe.

Is he mentally challenged or something?

The phrase grosses me out too. EW.

Apparently he just knows I'm the one. He knew before he even met me. He's happier than he ever was with his ex, even in the early stages when everything is meant to be at its best. But also he is one of those stick it out and make it work types and he's been in a relationship where there has been a lot of trying to make things work and perhaps he is better at identifying what he can make work. I don't know.

I know that I generally have terrible taste in men so I am perhaps being overly cautious and over analysing. But meh. I'm also 37 so I don't have years to make my mind up about all this.

it is tricky but PLEASE don't stay with him just because you think he is your last chance saloon, he isn't

it would be better to have a donor baby and find a man for your whole package than have kids with someone who was triggering your o noes

but if you actually like him a lot then have at it

I do like him a lot. But I think if he'd backed the fook off for the first few months I'd be more sure of my own feelings because they would have developed out of the sphere of the expectation of them.

Yes, fairly intense. But it's more manageable. Lots of I love yous which still freak me out a bit and I'm not at the stage where I want to throw them out like handfuls of confetti, but easier to dodge. Occasionally I might say it, but only when I really feel I have to.

He's not back until early October so have some breathing space. Unless he carries on not speaking to me.

This is seriously worrying. You remember those cut out books as a kid? The ones with the doll and the clothes that clipped on to her? You could put a pretty dress on her or other nonsense (never Dr, firewoman or barrister of course). It sounds like he’s doing that with you. Except the pretty dress is a clip on baby and a farmers wife outfit. It’s fooking odd and artificial. I suspect you could be anyone with a nice face and he’d be saying the same.

Plus, eww to a million on the putting a baby in you. That’s just way too proprietorial for my liking. You’re not a prize mare or sow.

Good point re others and their view of him. If you trust the judgement of your mates then ask them. Particularly male friends. In my experience my male friends are pretty incisive on this shit. 

It sounds like he’s doing that with you. Except the pretty dress is a clip on baby and a farmers wife outfit. It’s fooking odd and artificial. I suspect you could be anyone with a nice face and he’d be saying the same.

Wot Bailey sed. This. Massively this.

He certainly sounds of a certain farming type. If that's what you want then fair enough, but this is what it is and you should go into it knowing that and all that comes with it.

No speaking to you definitely counts as breathing space. 

Sounds rather like sulking/punishment to me.

Everything you say on here about this guy makes me concerned.  

He has met my bestie, sister, Mum and extended family. Everyone likes him. My Mum has no problem with the fact that he's moving fast but then she has always been weirdly supportive of people who get married within a month of meeting each other.

Bro in law took him out with the lads after the Christening and liked him too. 

Barring the moving fast I generally don't see any obvious red flags.

I also had concerns re the paper doll thing (and omg I loved those books when I was a kid, so much so that when I saw the vintage versions on Amazon I bought some for my future kids. Yes. I know. Weird) and I asked him what would happen if I wanted to stay in London. He said he wouldn't want to force me to move and if I wanted to stay here we would make it work and he'd need to rethink other plans around it. So it would seem that I am more important than the farm dream. Which is nice.

most men do the clip on dress thing to some extent

ditto women and that's numberwang.

i say let him plant his seed in you and it will grow into a loving tree under which you will find shelter and peace

or he may be a wrong un. 

Never can tell.

I think "the one" is a pretty silly concept and most people could be content (or better) with someone who was nice and considerate and adequately good at sex. 

I asked him what would happen if I wanted to stay in London. He said he wouldn't want to force me to move and if I wanted to stay here we would make it work and he'd need to rethink other plans around it. So it would seem that I am more important than the farm dream.

Hmmm. See how that works out once he's "put a baby in you".

well I agree there is no one one but I don't agree re contentment - I think love is binary

well depending on your circumstances I mean an obese one-eyed shut in probably has to make some choices

*pushes macmillan cake aside*

I mean half of marriages end in divorce and more than that have lots of self-destructive coping mechanisms propping them up

I think this all comes from trying to jam square pegs in round holes

The big wedding thing is neither here nor there.  If you want a big wedding he will come around to it. Lots of men don't want one, moan about it, joke about it, try to avoid it, then give in and either love the big day or at least love that their other half loves it.  In some cases they may manage to get their other half to tone it down a bit.  Their other half may or may not (jokingly or otherwise) hold it against them forever and/or take the p1ss out of them for being tight.

The only issue here (as I may have mentioned before on these threads) is that you just don't know each other very well yet.  It takes time to know when someone is being serious (or deliberately snide) or really is just joking/teasing you in a way they intend to be kind (even if it doesn't feel like it). You don't know, because you don't know him.

Wait until you know him before you start worrying about marriage (or the wedding day that goes with it).

 

Clergs, love is great.  But it is not the same thing as a commitment to stay together for ever.  And a commitment made privately between two people is not the same as commitment made in public in front of the people who you care about and whom care about you. 

What Clergs said on all points. Bleurgh.

He sounds like he's in love with the idea of companionship.

I wouldn't make any big decisions for now, and wait and see how things develop. Surely all of these points will just magnify the longer you're with him? And you don't want to be stuck without an escape route.

"Everything you say on here about this guy makes me concerned."

 

This ^^^ 100.

 Don't know either of you, admittedly, but I'd run a mile if I were you. He sounds menkle.

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