There is nothing honourable about him. He has brought the country to ruin by calling an ill advised referendum, failing to do even the most basic planning, arrogantly assuming he would win and then fooking off the next day and leaving others to deal with his mess.
Despite Theresa May, he is and will remain the worst prime minister we have ever had.
If more than 50% genuinely want to leave in the knowledge of the shit show ahead then ok, in fact would be good to know. Would then be srsly considering leaving the country.
Fred, I don't think people assume remain would win a second referendum. (I personally think that's the way it would go, but I don't assume anything. And I predicted that leave would win last time, right down to the percentage split.)
But if it's the only realistic way out of this mess then what have we got to lose? I would rather remain in the EU following a second referendum (and take the chance of a second leave vote) than by revoking Article 50.
Much as I deeply admire you Anna and indeed one day look forward to you becoming one of us I am afraid that I must disagree with you here.
Cameron behaved very well throughout the campaign (possibly to the campaign’s detriment on a range of issues including Turkish accession and blue on blue attacks). He has also being pressured to stay on as PM at least for a while but it was his sense of honour that he could not front up a government that had brexit as its main policy plank that made him go.
Also very personally pleasant to all who worked for him.
But read some of the many detailed books written on the subject and draw your own conclusions.
Much as I deeply admire you Anna and indeed one day look forward to you becoming one of us
Heh. Are you planning on living to the age of 206?
He has also being pressured to stay on as PM at least for a while but it was his sense of honour that he could not front up a government that had brexit as its main policy plank that made him go.
Bollocks! (As our learned friend Geoffrey Cox QC MP would say.) He said he would stay on as PM whatever the result and that's what he should have done. If heading a government that was in charge of delivering Brexit was anathema to him then he shouldn't have promised to hold a referendum if he got a majority (counting on not getting a majority and then blaming the Lib Dems for not holding a referendum), and then held the referendum, promising to implement the result, but refusing to do any planning.
If you want to "blame" anyone for Brexit, then either blame everyone who voted Conservative in 2015, or Parliament for voting to ratify the referendum.
He's not only acted honourably, but consistently and capably.
He did no contingency planning to prepare for an eventual leave vote because he arrogantly thought that he would win, and then when he lost he fooked off and left his mess for someone else to clean up.
possibly one the most stupid comment on rof. And that really is saying something.
Destabilisation of the whole Middle East, hundreds of thousands of dead, wholescale destruction of cities and a huge rise in Islamic terrorism across the globe. Serious war crimes and breaches of international law, pervasive corruption by US businesses that have long term ramifications for global secirty.
Cf.
A tiny little island got all upset about some stuff but in the end not a lot really changed. But some people in London were really very cross about it!
There was very little planning he could have done. The contingency planning should have been done by his successor before triggering Article 50.
Yes and no.
He could have set some proper ground rules for campaigning and enforced them. No lies on the side of buses.
He could have remembered that Northern Ireland is actually part of the UK and given some consideration to the border issue. He could have had proper, in depth discussions with his EU counterparts to find out what options were actually possible if we were to leave, and narrowed down what leave would actually look like prior to the referendum. He could have stayed in his post following the rest and done his fooking job. He could have made an effort to find out what our constitutional requirements for triggering Article 50 actually were. He could have looked into the implications of leaving EURATOM, commissioned a few studies on the impact of leaving the EU on different sectors, figured out what infrastructure we would actually need to build if we were to leave the customs union.
Oh what a lot of things he could have done and didn't.
The fact that Theresa May didn't do any of that stuff either doesn't make Cameron any less shit.
I agree he was misguided in thinking he'd win, but tbf he was with 99.8% of the population on that one.
Not me. I knew it would happen the day the stupid fooker got his unexpected majority in May 2015.
His errors were tactical/strategic but he seems to have acted with honour throughout, including by standing down when the country rejected his vision.
What vision?
He only promised a referendum to win votes back from UKIP and never thought he'd actually have to go through with it. Most of the best things he did in government were Lib Dem policies. As soon as he got his majority the wheels fell off. He went through the motions of trying to negotiate something with the EU and then backed remain without any real passion or enthusiasm because he couldn't very well say the deal he had negotiated was unremarkable.
Were it not for the lasting damage he has done to his country, the man would be a political nonentity.
I find the ongoing farce of the last couple of years in both major parties leads me to regarding even fvckwits like Cameron as belonging to some sort of Golden Era of sanity.
The current farce wouldn't be happening if it weren't for Cameron's incompetence. If you look back on the 2010-2015 government as a golden age of sanity, it's because the Lib Dems were in the coalition government basically stopping Cameron from fooking too many things up (and taking the blame for everything he did fook up). As soon as he got his majority everything he touched turned to shit.
Well that is true - even he didn't want a majority - the Lib Dems were a shield against the monstrous far right in his own party. The biggest thing that went wrong for him was winning the 2015 election outright.
Cameron was a fairly decent bloke, but I really cannot bear the excuses on this thread. He fooked up good and proper and he fully deserves the merciless treatment he will get from future commentators and historians.
Some points:
(1) He should never have let BoJo back into Parliament. John Major advised against it.
(2) He should have taken steps to revitalise the Conservative Party machine. A party whose members have an average age of 72 is not fit to govern. A party whose cabinet when in government contains too many country-house-party-attending Sloane Rangers is not fit to govern.
(3) He should never have agreed to the referendum. It was done to preserve the Conservative Party not for the good of the country.
(4) In agreeing to the referendum, he should have insisted on a supermajority provision - get 66% in favour of change or no changes to anything.
(5) He ignored the lessons of recent UK political campaigns about foreign funding and foreign interference in elections and referenda.
Above all, Cameron was too young and too careless, rather like Blair. There is a reason why people should only get to high office in their late fifties or early sixties.
He saw Britain as best off within the EU. Unlike May or Corbyn, who both fudged it for career purposes, his view during the referendum was unambiguous and he campaigned wholeheartedly for Remain.
I really don't think your demonising him is particularly constructive. It just diminishes from your argument tbh.
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well, yes and no
I delight in him getting hounded for being a useless moron but at the same time I don't want to see his porky face constantly
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Now you know how your wife feels.
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I know will be an unpopular view but I have been reading heavily into the campaign and he acted extremely honourably throughout.
Obviously tactical errors were made, but as a person he comes off very well in my opinion.
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source or expand on that please, strutter?
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most transparent, blatant trolling ever from Strutts there
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"And apart from that how did you enjoy the play, Mrs Lincoln?"
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I'm interested though. Cameron can obviously live with himself.
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There is nothing honourable about him. He has brought the country to ruin by calling an ill advised referendum, failing to do even the most basic planning, arrogantly assuming he would win and then fooking off the next day and leaving others to deal with his mess.
Despite Theresa May, he is and will remain the worst prime minister we have ever had.
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'Arrogantly assuming he will win' - yes, like a good portion of 2nd ref advocates now
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I don't assume remain would win.
If more than 50% genuinely want to leave in the knowledge of the shit show ahead then ok, in fact would be good to know. Would then be srsly considering leaving the country.
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Fred, I don't think people assume remain would win a second referendum. (I personally think that's the way it would go, but I don't assume anything. And I predicted that leave would win last time, right down to the percentage split.)
But if it's the only realistic way out of this mess then what have we got to lose? I would rather remain in the EU following a second referendum (and take the chance of a second leave vote) than by revoking Article 50.
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Never trusted the guy's judgement after he started lecturing Ergodan
Eyes far too close together
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Much as I deeply admire you Anna and indeed one day look forward to you becoming one of us I am afraid that I must disagree with you here.
Cameron behaved very well throughout the campaign (possibly to the campaign’s detriment on a range of issues including Turkish accession and blue on blue attacks). He has also being pressured to stay on as PM at least for a while but it was his sense of honour that he could not front up a government that had brexit as its main policy plank that made him go.
Also very personally pleasant to all who worked for him.
But read some of the many detailed books written on the subject and draw your own conclusions.
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Heh. Are you planning on living to the age of 206?
Bollocks! (As our learned friend Geoffrey Cox QC MP would say.) He said he would stay on as PM whatever the result and that's what he should have done. If heading a government that was in charge of delivering Brexit was anathema to him then he shouldn't have promised to hold a referendum if he got a majority (counting on not getting a majority and then blaming the Lib Dems for not holding a referendum), and then held the referendum, promising to implement the result, but refusing to do any planning.
Dreadful man.
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What strutter means is that Cameron is PLU (he's not, or rather I doubt strutter comes from such rarified circles) and therefore a good egg
It's all nonsense about honour and duty blah blah blah with these people. Pointless to engage
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Which books pls strutter?
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I always liked Charlie Brooker’s description of him as looking like a “freshly w**ked bellend”.
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Heh!
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He fought an election campaign promising to grant a referendum.
He won that election as a result.
He negotiated hard to get a good deal for the UK from the gangsters in the EU.
Despite limited gains, he tnonetheless campaigned hard to remain in the EU.
He's not only acted honourably, but consistently and capably.
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If you want to "blame" anyone for Brexit, then either blame everyone who voted Conservative in 2015, or Parliament for voting to ratify the referendum.
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He did no contingency planning to prepare for an eventual leave vote because he arrogantly thought that he would win, and then when he lost he fooked off and left his mess for someone else to clean up.
The only thing he has consistently been is shit.
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"it’s a bigger issue than Iraq."
heh
possibly one the most stupid comment on rof. And that really is saying something.
Destabilisation of the whole Middle East, hundreds of thousands of dead, wholescale destruction of cities and a huge rise in Islamic terrorism across the globe. Serious war crimes and breaches of international law, pervasive corruption by US businesses that have long term ramifications for global secirty.
Cf.
A tiny little island got all upset about some stuff but in the end not a lot really changed. But some people in London were really very cross about it!
you silly twot.
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There was very little planning he could have done. The contingency planning should have been done by his successor before triggering Article 50.
I agree he was misguided in thinking he'd win, but tbf he was with 99.8% of the population on that one.
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Yes and no.
He could have set some proper ground rules for campaigning and enforced them. No lies on the side of buses.
He could have remembered that Northern Ireland is actually part of the UK and given some consideration to the border issue. He could have had proper, in depth discussions with his EU counterparts to find out what options were actually possible if we were to leave, and narrowed down what leave would actually look like prior to the referendum. He could have stayed in his post following the rest and done his fooking job. He could have made an effort to find out what our constitutional requirements for triggering Article 50 actually were. He could have looked into the implications of leaving EURATOM, commissioned a few studies on the impact of leaving the EU on different sectors, figured out what infrastructure we would actually need to build if we were to leave the customs union.
Oh what a lot of things he could have done and didn't.
The fact that Theresa May didn't do any of that stuff either doesn't make Cameron any less shit.
Not me. I knew it would happen the day the stupid fooker got his unexpected majority in May 2015.
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Wot Strutter said.
His errors were tactical/strategic but he seems to have acted with honour throughout, including by standing down when the country rejected his vision.
Attacks on his capability are justified but attacks on his character are misplaced.
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What vision?
He only promised a referendum to win votes back from UKIP and never thought he'd actually have to go through with it. Most of the best things he did in government were Lib Dem policies. As soon as he got his majority the wheels fell off. He went through the motions of trying to negotiate something with the EU and then backed remain without any real passion or enthusiasm because he couldn't very well say the deal he had negotiated was unremarkable.
Were it not for the lasting damage he has done to his country, the man would be a political nonentity.
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I find the ongoing farce of the last couple of years in both major parties leads me to regarding even fvckwits like Cameron as belonging to some sort of Golden Era of sanity.
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for once I agree with Guy. that said imagine if moonface had not had the sense to run away when he did and was not dealing with this...
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now dealing, not not
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The current farce wouldn't be happening if it weren't for Cameron's incompetence. If you look back on the 2010-2015 government as a golden age of sanity, it's because the Lib Dems were in the coalition government basically stopping Cameron from fooking too many things up (and taking the blame for everything he did fook up). As soon as he got his majority everything he touched turned to shit.
He should be strung up.
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Well that is true - even he didn't want a majority - the Lib Dems were a shield against the monstrous far right in his own party. The biggest thing that went wrong for him was winning the 2015 election outright.
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Cameron was a fairly decent bloke, but I really cannot bear the excuses on this thread. He fooked up good and proper and he fully deserves the merciless treatment he will get from future commentators and historians.
Some points:
(1) He should never have let BoJo back into Parliament. John Major advised against it.
(2) He should have taken steps to revitalise the Conservative Party machine. A party whose members have an average age of 72 is not fit to govern. A party whose cabinet when in government contains too many country-house-party-attending Sloane Rangers is not fit to govern.
(3) He should never have agreed to the referendum. It was done to preserve the Conservative Party not for the good of the country.
(4) In agreeing to the referendum, he should have insisted on a supermajority provision - get 66% in favour of change or no changes to anything.
(5) He ignored the lessons of recent UK political campaigns about foreign funding and foreign interference in elections and referenda.
Above all, Cameron was too young and too careless, rather like Blair. There is a reason why people should only get to high office in their late fifties or early sixties.
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Not a Tory but agree with all of that
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He saw Britain as best off within the EU. Unlike May or Corbyn, who both fudged it for career purposes, his view during the referendum was unambiguous and he campaigned wholeheartedly for Remain.
I really don't think your demonising him is particularly constructive. It just diminishes from your argument tbh.
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You know what else wasn't very constructive? All the stupid shit Cameron did just to keep the Tory party together (and he didn't even manage that).
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only thing he did wrong was not instructing the civil service to do contingency planning for a leave win.
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