Discussion

Main Board| Accommodation Wanted| Accommodation Offered
Start a new discussion on this board

Let your next career move come to you.

Feeling like I am getting worse in my second seat as a trainee

Is it a common feeling to feel like you are getting worse/dumber in the next seat? Had great reviews in previous seat but getting the sense that the current team thinks I am an idiot/incompetent even though I have been exerting more effort in this seat.

i wouldn’t worry

could be a number of factors eg

- you are better at certain things and worse at others. For example, attention to detail is always useful but is generally more important in contentious and advisory areas (vs transactional areas)

- you worked better/had a better rapport with your team in your first seat so thrived and performed better

- you had a better understanding of the subject matter in your first seat. For example, at 6 yrs PQE, I find I struggle more with understanding financial instruments (which I occasionally handle in my line of work albeit tangentially not day to day)

Both seats are transactional but my suspicion is that it is because the current seat has a different culture (dare I say less diverse) and although I don’t like blaming my shortcomings on something nebulous like ‘culture’ I do feel like I am always one mistake away from being fired

Maybe I didn’t phrase it correct not, just a sense that I am not gelling with the team as seamlessly as previous seats (eg don’t feel I have much in common). Again nothing conclusive but just trying to figure out why it’s not been going well! Will be trying to improve my work product in any case 

Maybe I didn’t phrase it correct not, just a sense that I am not gelling with the team as seamlessly as previous seats (eg don’t feel I have much in common).

sounds like my second seat to be honest - team was a bit stand offish and not sociable at all - I got given work but nobody was friendly or proactive in offering support (even an invitation to grab a coffee would have been nice).

it goes without saying that if you get on with people you are likely to work better with them and produce good work 

also - re your concern about getting worse - remember what is an “acceptable” level of performance is, in practice, highly subjective and varies hugely between supervisors who all have difference styles

some will expect you as the trainee or NQ to project manage large deals or bits of litigation. This can work if you are well supported but I have seen many instances where this has not happened and then the junior gets blamed for oversights.

some supervisors will be super hands-on and expect you to check in with them daily or will chase you for updates. Others will be hands-off which is liberating but the risk is that you forget a deadline or fail to anticipate delays due to inexperience.

to give you some examples of supervisors I worked with in the same team for the same work (drafting a property notice) which gives an insight

- associate 1 - wanted me to dig out all the background lease documents, Land Registry docs and Companies House records, print it all out and stick it in a paper wallet, along with a printout of my draft notice and cover letter. Gave me a deadline of 24 hours (real deadline was end of week). When I handed it in to him, he said that he would spot check a few things (eg party names) but wouldn’t check the underlying docs for details. 

- associate 2 - gave me the matter details but asked me to use a paralegal or secretary to dig out relevant docs to save time and also remain profitable as this was a fixed fee matter. Told me that if I delegated I was responsible for checking the documents were the right ones (subject ofc to supervisor checks). Said that deadline was next week but he wanted it Fri morning so he could check Fri PM and discuss/flag any changes. Also asked me to check for conflicts asap and confirm either way that day so client could be told if necessary. Said associate checked the underlying docs after I handed it in. He was v v thorough and picked up on a minor typo somewhere.

- associate 3 - gave me wrong client details and then when I emailed the next day to double check he sat on it for three days, then when I emailed again he was annoyed I hadn’t phoned him to tell him sooner because he was really busy. Said associate then dumped 4 hours of time on the file for supervision (would have expected 1-2 hours max) and then wrote most of this off. When he got asked by the partner for the reason for the write off, he blamed me and said that I had needed a lot of handholding.

Thanks Jamiestone1, that’s really useful. I didn’t realise how important it was to get on with the team (and its relationship to quality of work product). One thing about deadlines: often people would get annoyed/defensive when I’d ask for when they’d like something done but guess I’ll have to bite the bullet on that. 
 

Another follow up Q I have is: generally, how to deal with a seat you don’t enjoy? I like to think myself as a professional and despite warnings from people who’d previously sat in the team saying it was toxic I tried to enter the seat with an open mind but it is starting to grate against me! 

Suck it up for 6 months, is how you deal with it.

It's v weird for someone to get defensive when you ask about timings.  That's exactly what you should be doing.

generally, how to deal with a seat you don’t enjoy? I like to think myself as a professional and despite warnings from people who’d previously sat in the team saying it was toxic I tried to enter the seat with an open mind but it is starting to grate against me! 

ooof

focus on the next seat and qualification I guess

ask the previous trainees for tips on how to survive and manage colleagues

I asked the previous trainees but they all said they came out with bad reviews and failed to deal well with the team- it's notoriously unpopular among trainees/junior associates. I have been trying to deal with it by being ultra responsive even in weekends but seems like nothing I do is ever enough....

runnersknee

In what respect is the lack of diversity affecting the culture and holding you back?

———-

Assume this is very poor taste trolling. 

Your perseverance in what must be an unbearably bigoted environment must be superhuman, OP. I don’t think I would be able to stand it. Please confirm that you have raised it with HR?

Seriously tho: Dude/ dudette, don’t sweat it. If the team is problematic and/ or obnoxious and/ or giving everyone bad reviews, everyone else will know this. Do you best, but do NOT crucify yourself with self doubt. You’ll be fine. 

Just to clarify, I don't like using diversity as an excuse and wouldn't normally raise it even as a potential reason, but it's just that other people in the office cite it as a dominating factor so isn't just me imagining things. Of course I'm not going to raise it with HR 

It's just been a rough seat and I've been left feeling discouraged despite starting the seat with good intentions and doubts have been creeping in as to whether I'm cut for this job etc but glad to see one bad seat doesn't need to determine one's career...

It doesn’t.

Cut that shit right now.

You’ve done brilliantly to get this role, you nailed the first seat, we all feel this at some point, and it gets better. Chin up, you’re doing, and will be, fine. 

I have noticed an increase in toxic behaviour in the office. I am not sure why this would be. The main thing to remember is it’s Not You. 
 

Shooty are you still assigned special duties or was that another Shooty? 

City we’ve all been there, you just need to remind yourself it’s only a seat and won’t be forever, hopefully your next seat will be better. Lawyers will be varying levels of dicks throughout your career x

City - Echo everything that jamie said.

Different teams and personalities within them can make the job feel totally different. Some supervisors and teams will treat and support you well, some won't & law firms can be particularly bad in beating people down with criticism.

In one of my seats a long time ago I was checking figures in draft prospectus to a tight deadline after two post midnight finishes, missed updating a couple of them, handed work to the partner.  Decided to have another check about an hour later and picked up the other changes. Went over to partner with the extra updates.... Cue a 10 minute shouting and dressing down in front of the most of the team with all the usual "you must be f**king kidding me", "Did you even look at any of this at all?" "How can we trust anything you do" etc. etc. 

At the time absolutely terrified - later found out from an associate that the doc hadn't gone anywhere in those two hours, was an early draft doing the rounds and wasn't timetabled to be finalised for a couple of months anyway. Some people are just out to make others feel small.

Don't worry about it and don't worry at all about being fired - even if (*if*) the team thinks you're performing poorly it's a six month seat, just get through it as best you can and the next seat is a fresh start - onwards and upwards. 

How you cope with your  seats isn't really any reflection of how your career will progress and what you're good at. I struggled during my training contract and felt very out of my depth at times, that hasn't been a barrier at all to future progression and a pretty successful legal career.

Being a trainee sucks.  It really does.  You are the lowest man on the totem pole.

You've had a good first seat.  You'll just need to suck this one up.  It's a test of your resilience.  At the end of the day, the buck stops with these fookheads, so as long as you're doing your best and abiding by ethical conduct - you're good to go.  

Do not.  Do not. Do not think you're the failure in this equation.  You're not.  You've been put into a sh!t team.  That's not on you - that's on your firm.  

So, shoulders back.  Head up.  Make sure you take your annual leave.

At the time absolutely terrified - later found out from an associate that the doc hadn't gone anywhere in those two hours, was an early draft doing the rounds and wasn't timetabled to be finalised for a couple of months anyway. Some people are just out to make others feel small.

This.

All this.

also touching on merkz’ earlier comment

you are probably getting to the point where you know what you don’t know

this is very true and you will feel this at the start of seats 2-4 and when you qualify - you will move from a place of sort of knowing what you are doing to a completely new area - discomfort is inevitable

my most terrified/unhappy/feeling incompetent was just after qualifying, and then about 2 years in when I realised exactly how much I didn’t know, how my supervisor was actually a mediocre lawyer (albeit crafty at times), how what I was doing was getting commoditised and what I needed to do to survive long term (set boundaries, delegate more, do extra work to develop a couple of niches)

Join the discussion

Login Register