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Fed up with MALE EGOs

fooking hell m8s, sort your shit out. I know on here you’re mainly on the internet so have little time to be a genuine IRL khunt but have a word with your brethren on behalf of your sisthren

I am really having to bite my tongue. A couple of the good egg senior male partners I am friend with are always telling me to play the game, be less black and white (Oh shut up) etc etc but I just want to send an all users email with an open letter 

Talking over women, willy waving, taking credit, speaking patronisingly, employing only young nubile working class women to be support staff (yeh no male college leavers exist right??) to work for middle class white men - even if not by design the perception stinks 

I am thinking about starting a female led litigation boutique in the citeh where I will give all my big briefs (not those ones...) to female QCs who are also disgustingly disadvantaged by the OLD STALE DINOauntS

fook off too with the first 100 years virtue signalling - either start correcting things or DIE

One quick watch of last night’s “debate” (mong off) and the buttons that seems to run the world just makes me want to become Villanelle tbh. With one mandate. 

 

Is there a prophesy that a new dawn will emerge in which women are recognised as inherently superior and run things? Because if so, I will fight for the sake of my children*!

 

 

*but not my children’s children, as personally I don’t think children should be having sex ?

It can't have been that many years ago

Did you marry the young eager one and dump the old grateful one or what?

No one cares about litigators I'm afraid there expected to be awful. Hence judges.

I'm getting kinda sick of the working assumption that all men are arseholes.

But then I am, and I guess it's our turn to take a bit of shit for the greater good.  Just nobody cut my cock off.

 

 

I was talking about this with Mrs Archibald and Sister Archibald recently.

Sometimes it is really disappointing to here how its still SOOO prevalent and its all the small things that I cant get my head around and must be so infuriating as a woman. 

Things that are so "small" that there is a risk of being labelled negatively if you make an issue of it. And things so small that the other difficulty is that the guilty party is not necessarily consciously sexist, and may in fact feel terrible if they understood the impact of their actions, but they have clearly grown up in a certain environment and been "taught" to behave in certain ways that are just so not right.

I think a huge proportion of men just cannot see the more subtle issues. It annoys me like hell when people just think its about equal pay and then surely its all sorted. A discussion they probably have during Golf club?!

 

This aggressive neofeminism is getting on my nerves *so much*

go on then open your women only law firm, with women only clients presumably 

but will you then stop whingeing?

I have a female boss and 3 out of 8 people in myteam are female 

boss is a khunt, favours women heavily and sometimes bleats about „women power“

at least she’s not always there

?

Female boss allows female colleague to come and leave as she wishes, nowadays she comes to work like 10:30. we call her part time Stephanie. She is a two faced khunt, they both are severe bitches 

I know people get this, and I understand good and fair men who support women and equality probably find this all either distasteful or boring, but it really does permeate a large part of most of my friend’s work lives including outside of law 

We obviously surround ourselves with modern and fair men in our private lives - or try to - and I do see big differences in men under 45 so there is hope 

But I notice so much sexism everyday - the way men speak to female colleagues, the power structures, the lack of involvement in any meaningful discussions or programmes to actually implement change and recognise the difficulties - one cursory look at the lean in website and you can read the research about the myriad of biases and issues women face in work

We have come a long way and I am grateful to all who fought for so many rights, and I live in a mainly fair and “free” country, but I suppose now I am older it just fooks me off now I see it and now it effects me more directly. I go to events where it is a sea of white men and I wonder whether they even notice, in such a multi culturally city, that it is weird? And if they do, what are they doing about it? 

So much of our marketing goes on at sports events and there is “no budget” it seems for more neutral things - it all feeds in to a man only power culture. We need quotas to even the playing field otherwise it’s at least 30 years until we have truly equal representation and no sane person could argue against the absolute necessity of that

It goes further too, we need to do more programmes for socially disadvantaged kids who might want work experience rather than just have privileged kids coming in 

Our pro bono programme is led by women and we have one male volunteer on it - no single man gives up his time to go to a single legal advice clinic. Even once a year each would be over 100 hours of free legal advice to people who often really need it - that is a huge thing

And I get that this could all sounds a bit naive and utopian but the thing that annoys me about it the most is the virtue signalling and pretence that they care when they don’t put their money where their mouths are - that lack of authenticity is a form of gas lighting and more deeply shows that they KNOW they should be doing it but they are so entitled and enabled and unaccountable they KNOW they don’t need to make the effort outside their own self interest. This is reflected in current politics with the likes of Boris and Trump.

It’s so depressing. Gah. 

I go to events where it is a sea of white men and I wonder whether they even notice, in such a multi culturally city, that it is weird?

 

They notice.. and they like it.. just the way it is.  Hence the lip service and platitudes with no real intention of change.

To be fair an awful lot of the marketing budget has to go on sports events because the RFU has been jacking up its prices pretty mercilessly over the last few years.  

No one would be happier than I if seats at Twickenham were cheaper.

@Scylla11 Jul 19 11:46

You do know that the multiracial island in Central London is pretty small ?  That the UK was over 90% white in 2000 and is still over 85% white?  And that not everyone goes to Twickenham?

Or are your cravings for what you think is moral superiority so strong that they override facts and statistics too?

 

I go to events where it is a sea of white men and I wonder whether they even notice, in such a multi culturally city, that it is weird?

 

FWIW, when I was in private practice, I noticed it, I'm not a grey hair (yet), I did think it odd, I didn't like it, I wished it were more diverse.

Having gone into industry I see much, much greater diversity.  Can't really quantify it.  The leaders still tend to be male though, but not all white British males.  I hope for more female influence in future.

 

Re your 11:40 I  think it depends where you work 

my firm has a female senior partner, my immediate boss is a woman and one of the (me) partners sent round an email today along for volunteers for a project with a food bank. 

I agree with what you say overall tho 

Hiya Miss T. I hear you.

Earlier this year I was in the middle of a 3-way negotiation. Me, a younger female barrister and an older male barrister. I pulled up the male when he openly poo-poohed a (reasonable) proposal put by the female barrister and wouldn't let her finish putting her instructions. I told him he would never have behaved that way to male counsel. 

After an initial denial of any bad behaviour, he at least changed his demeanour. He offered no apology though.

Only a couple of weeks ago I told another senior barrister, male, that he was being rude and demeaning towards me and my instructing solicitor (female). He also denigrated his instructing solicitor while she was out of the conference room. He denied being rude but sarcastically apologised (only) for interrupting me. I have known him for over 20 years and have seen him behave this way towards females, but not males. I think he must have a very small penis.

I have told the story here many times of the horrible interview I had for a summer clerkship, in my penultimate year of law school, run by the male HR manager of a very large firm. Still makes my skin crawl, that one.

Thing is, these are just a few of the hundreds of negative encounters I've had with male colleagues, judges and clients over the years. 

Thank the stars I've had thousands more positive encounters.

 

Thing is, these are just a few of the hundreds of negative encounters I've had with male colleagues, judges and clients over the years. 

Thank the stars I've had thousands more positive encounters.

pure cognitive bias in action. I too have met some people who are total dickheads and a majority who are not. Don't make it a sex/gender thing.

Man, I’m about as unwoke as a hibernating bear, but if you don’t recognise there is a gender problem then undoubtedly you are part of that problem.  I’ve seen it plenty.

Miss T.11 Jul 19 11:40

I go to events where it is a sea of white men and I wonder whether they even notice, in such a multi culturally city, that it is weird?

______________________________________________________________________

I think it's weird that "white" and "black" are catch all "races". Because irish, israeli and sakhalin russian are all the same? because Algerian, Nigerian and Malawian are all the same? 

 

Good on you Girkl for calling it out (& hi by the way!) - building a good practice in law is definitely more challenging as a woman and all these daily occurrences just add to the burden

but as you do, it is important to bear in mind (particularly when it all gets a bit on top of me) the many more instances of good/pleasant/normal interactions with non assholes. 

Success in modern Britain is largely determined the circumstances of your birth. Roll with advantage for white, male, wealthy parents, above average intelligence, from the South East. Entrench privilege by establishing a culture that rewards these advantages then repeat down the generations. 

Miss T I agree with so much of this.  I know it doesn't help too much but as you said -  these people are dinosaurs, and the dinosaurs die out.

Law is also not necessarily representative of the real world, I know I often go off on a rant on here about that and I won't do that now but a lot of the negative issues you mention tend to survive better in a model that doesnt have the capacity to self "regulate" itself. 

More and more businesses are taking the line that it doesnt matter how much dollar you bring in, if you are a dickhead you're a dickhead and you are out  - law firms seem a long way away from getting to this point (with many obvious exceptions). 

Thanks Archibald and to all those normal people who get this and think time should be up on this shit - law as a business is a strange model lacking real accountability to any external stakeholders so the self interest is very pronounced - comfort comes in knowing they will all retire and die out one day 

The point about all white people not being equal or of the same nationality is so off point here I don’t think it requires any real air time. I’m sure if you tell BAME lawyers that white people are not all the same that would really advance and understand the prejudice and issues they face in law firms and society at large *eye roll*

 

 

also its not just them dying  - the model will die, in our lifetimes if not within the next 10-20 years maybe a lot quicker -  i'd bet my life on it. 

 

 

Miss T.11 Jul 19 15:50

I’m sure if you tell BAME lawyers that white people are not all the same that would really advance and understand the prejudice and issues they face in law firms and society at large *eye roll*

__________________________________________________________________________

It would help to bring all the people who face issues together instead of parcelling them up into little colour by numbers groups with their little group privileges so they battle each other instead of uniting against the "bad" guys (and yes, they are generally guys) 

 

I don’t follow your gripe at all

in this thread I have bemoaned sexism, class privilege, white British male privilege, and wealth inequality 

I don’t think any of those things are isolated or mutually exclusive. I have read appalling statistics about sexism and BAME discrimination. Me too was started by a black women but picked up widely by the MSM when white actresses joined in the dialogue/cause.

so to sum up, I don’t know what your point is vis a vis sexism and male egos and entitlement in big law 

In my experience women are supported where a man would be bawled out 

"employing only young nubile working class women to be support staff "

These women are dangerous ,and if it were not for the accent, many more trusting public school boys would be caught up in their web

@Miss T.11 Jul 19 16:12

Is it going to infuriate you if I point out that you are inside a number of groups that also have extreme privilege?  For instance, you benefit from a good education.  

And if I point out that Macaulay-style preferment on merit may be imperfect but is a lot better than what you are asking for ?  

Because you seem to be asking for money, power and advantages for women and non-white people just because, without imposing any kind of testing based on merit, achievement or work done.  

Dont be surprised if most people don’t agree with your ranting.  Don’t be surprised if many people find the time and vehemence you use to promote your point of view more than a bit irritating.  

If you have a more nuanced message to promote, rof is full of people well able to understand it.  

 

I mean she's openly sexist and advocating for an openly sexist law firm so there's that. But then again she's got a fanny so I suppose we should treat her with kid gloves and be nice to her about it all.

Sumoking11 Jul 19 14:25

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Miss T.11 Jul 19 11:40

I go to events where it is a sea of white men and I wonder whether they even notice, in such a multi culturally city, that it is weird?

______________________________________________________________________

I think it's weird that "white" and "black" are catch all "races". Because irish, israeli and sakhalin russian are all the same? because Algerian, Nigerian and Malawian are all the same? 

 

 

I agree.  It's why I think race is a complete myth, used mainly to establish "otherness" as a means of evaluating human performance.  It's total bollocks, and it's the one box I never tick on an application form.

It doesn’t infuriate me - I know I am very privileged in many ways, which is why I choose to support many causes and use the skills I have been fortunate enough to acquire more widely than just to earn money and why I even have the time and energy to care and make a fuss. Being busy working for next to nothing and basically surviving sadly leaves many many people too exhausted and poor to even know where to begin I am sure.

however it does make me laugh that you think men get to where they are on merit alone - as I am sure we all know from experience, many incompetent men are in charge and become leaders. I don’t need to be more sophisticated and nuanced on an Internet forum site such as this, I was letting off some steam. There are widely available studies and academic articles on these topics which have done the hard work for me in that respect. There are also some great books out there - eg. the deadly truth about a world built for men, and another called invisible women which might open your eyes a bit if you are in any way interested in challenging your biases and assumptions 

Sumo bro, I know you are a very bright and liberal man, and I like you, but it can’t be lost on you that saying you don’t see or accept race as a distinguishing factor, in present circumstances, is a bit off. You’re white, it’s easy to think that.

Ideologically, I agree and can only hope one day that is the case

I don’t like prejudice whether sexual, racial, religious or otherwise. 

However, I also don’t like social engineering. The problem is always that someone has to decide on a policy or an aim for that social engineering and I don’t trust people who think they know what’s best for everyone

Exactly what Linda said

i don’t proclaim to know what is right for everyone, hell I hardly know what is right for me. But what I do know is I am now old enough to see things more clearly and to take responsibility to question that and my own assumptions. I am surrounded by inequality, prejudice, lack of care and bigotry. I am also surrounded by many wonderful and good things and I know which makes the world and life better. 

Men who are ego driven and self interested get ahead in the current model for law firms and society - you don’t have to be “woke” to think that needs adjusting

anyway, the adjustment is underway but caring how I sound on an Internet forum or in my general life for that matter isn’t high up my concerns tbh. 

I can only say I hope the ridiculous comments on here from some of the blokes are (failed) attempts at humour. .cos Jesus Christ you don't get it. 

 

And I appreciate the fact that I don't directly bear the negative impact of the all pervasive low level sexism all around us so I probably don't have the right to say this  but I do find it genuinely fascinating. It's amazing how shallowly people can dig into this and think they've reached the bottom and that anything suggesting we need to go any further is just feminists being hysterical. 

 

You wouldn't blink at a small law firm that happened to be all male, yet someone who illustrates a point suggesting an all female law firm has gone too far?! 

 

 

M7 you are wilfully being obtuse. An all male law firm that openly as a stated or unrated policy only instructs male bazzas would be by definition sexist. Same would go for Miss Ts proposed firm. 

Can't see that being controversial.

whether it's a problem or not is up for debate.

“in this thread I have bemoaned sexism, class privilege, white British male privilege,”

Except there’s no such thing as white British male privilege. There’s class privilege and no other. Surely you don’t think that a white bloke from a former pit village has more chance of being in a room full of lawyers than a woman from an independent girls school simply because he’s white and male?

 

Archibald, I am assuming you are a man, but I might be wrong. But thank you for your understanding. 

To anyone hard of understanding, we live in a patriarchal society, where male privilege is so ingrained, often even open feminists who are Male struggle to identify it. Generations move on and things change, so it is to be expected to some extent that “invisible” benefits of society might be overlooked on an individual level, but you’d have to be really hard of thinking to dismiss the vast body of researched findings which show sociologically the negative effects of a patriarchal society. There are positives too, the benefits if shared or applied univerally advance or should in theory all other groups  

 

To anyone hard of understanding, we live in a patriarchal society, where male privilege is so ingrained, often even open feminists who are Male struggle to identify it. Generations move on and things change, so it is to be expected to some extent that “invisible” benefits of society might be overlooked on an individual level, but you’d have to be really hard of thinking to dismiss the vast body of researched findings which show sociologically the negative effects of a patriarchal society. There are positives too, the benefits if shared or applied univerally advance or should in theory all other groups  

what a load of guff

 

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