Emma Watson's sexual harassment helpline

It's just for women.

I've done quite a lot of work in this area and have been quite surprised how high a proportion of victims have been men (including men on men).

Is it right to launch a service like this but exclude men?  Nothing about transwomen either.  Presumably a man could self-ID as a woman to get the help?

Heh.  I've been sexually harassed three times at work.  All by (older) women.  Once physically.  Don't find it that funny TBH Badders.

really don't like an "only for women" approach in general and can't see a reason for this except to be headlinesy

 

I called this 'helpline' to complain that I had indeed been sexually harassed by Emma Watson. I have to say they were less than helpful and I strongly suspect that it was because of my gender. I identify as male.

usually wot Clergs said but I am reading Invisible Women at the moment and it is making me so angry that I am thinking 'all men can FTFO'

QE - there are a couple of things in that book that I don't buy, which has made me doubt the whole thing tbh

Queenie you are falling for the siren song of a hate narrative. 

Men have the same siren song in the 'manosphere' but flipped.

take a step back and don't be seduced by such an easy narrative 

I don't actually work with any women directly and there are barely any in the company anyway so it's extremely unlikely to happen to me.

I do, however, get harassed constantly by gay men and it used to be a lot when I lived in London, including a man trying to come into my shower cubicle at a swimming pool. If you want to see a gay meatmarket, go to Oasis swimming pool in Covent Garden. It's like a Roman Baths or something. It doesn't bother me that much but if I was a woman and that sort of thing happened at work I would feel very disrespected.

Any men here who are NOT the frequent recipient of unwanted sexual attention from colleagues or indeed perfect strangers?

NC it sounds like I'm boasting but I'm not.

There are pools in central London that if you visit several times a week for years, you will see/experience a lot. They are well known gay cruising zones in the community.

I've heard to men having sex in a shower cubicle in the middle of the day!

What actually does being sexually harassed by an older woman involve?

Asking for a friend obv 

All sounds a bit like male snowflake pupils being "traumatised" when that hot 21 yr old teacher babe comes on to them  

Bring it on 

I must admit that when I read the thread title, my first thought was "Surely she's rich enough not to need to set up that sort of sex chat business - maybe she enjoys it?".

What actually does being sexually harassed by an older woman involve?

I was a 22 year old trainee.  I was on a page-turning exercise in London at the other side's offices.  The partner on the other side must have been about 50, was obese and had tits she had to lift up and put on the table.  She was grim.  She constantly tapped and grabbed my arse and made suggestive comments that if we "had some fun" she'd give positive feedback to my boss.  Weirdly I thought she had some kind of hold on me.  I didn't report her harassment but rather just coyly laughed it off.

Don't see why men should be excluded from Emma's sexual harassment hotline 

This would be a good name for a pub quiz team.

Women are allowed single sex services, obviously men can be sexually harassed or abused too but there is no good reason why services set up specifically for women have to cater to men's needs too. This is so self evident I'm not sure how you can't see this. 

Our used to be My Mum Can't Wrestle But You Should See Her Box.

I'm aware of single-sex exemptions being a discrimination lawyer of some experience.  I'm not sure the EA exemptions apply here, however.

Here is a summary, Linda.  I can't see how any of these apply.

When is it lawful to provide single-sex services?

A service provider can provide single-sex services in the following situations:

  • only one sex needs the service - for example, post-natal classes for women (NOPE)
  • it’s a more effective way to provide the service - for example, a father’s support group where men don’t attend the parents’ support group (NOPE, NOTHING IS BEING PROPOSED FOR MALE VICTIMS)
  • the services are of a type that you would object to someone of the opposite sex being there -  for example, separate changing rooms or a service involving personal hygiene (NOPE, IT'S REMOTE)
  • communal accommodation - for example, women only dormitories in a hostel (NOPE)
  • the service involves a high degree of physical contact - for example, self-defence or judo classes. (NOPE)

In all cases, the service provider must be able to show they have a good enough reason for treating you differently because of your sex.

Well if you think it's in breach of the EA sue away.  

The effective way exception is satisfied - they don't have to provide a service for men. People are allowed to start charities just for women. 

Your attitude is really instructive.  I have been a victim myself and am asking why victims like me would be excluded from this initiative and you've said "sue then".  There are only the right kind of victims aren't there, or the right kind of application of very clear equality laws.

I'm not going to sue because I don't have the time, and anyway the EHRC are much better placed to investigate and take action having received my complaint.

The effective way exception is satisfied - they don't have to provide a service for men. People are allowed to start charities just for women. 

Er, no.  That's a totally circular and ridiculous application of the requirement.

I'm not suggesting you shouldn't have the help you require. But there's no reason why you should be entitled to obtain it from that service. 

Your attitude is very male tbh. I need help with something but that help isn't there, so I'll try to destroy provision for other people. 

Super well done 

I thought you brought petty claims against e.g. ebay vendors just to rile them. Afraid of the big league?

There are several charities providing mental health support and peer for men only that don't provide a corresponding service for women, and no one complains. Funny that 

No, I'm not asking anything to be destroyed.  I'm asking for all sexes and genders to access a service where there is no justification for it being limited to only female victims.

Rape crisis is available to everyone.  Do you see?

Afraid of the big league?

No I just don't have time.  I'm doing several pro bono claims and have a full-time job.  And the EHRC is there for a reason.

The victim is irrelevant 

The only issue is that there must be the right kind of abuser

Obviously abuse by a Rosa Klebb lookalike must be reported 

Hoolie however, I might give a free pass to 

There's every justification you just don't like it 

You haven't explained any justification apart from that you think it's fine.  None of the statutory exemptions apply.  Your starting point is that a provider should be free to be able to provide services to only one sex.  In which case there should still be (for example) men-only sports and social clubs.  

I brought a claim on behalf of a female colleague to force a golf club in the UK to admit her at all times (rather than at limited times) and won.  Oddly, I just support anti-discrimination legislation and think it should be applied properly.  It's not that hard.

I'm not really very clear on why you think there's an appropriate exception for a men only parenting group, but women who don't want to use a sexual assault helpline staffed or used by men aren't entitled to one.

 

what a surprise that what this boils down to is women in the members bar of golf clubs eh. So shocked. 

When did I support any men-only groups?  I didn't and don't.

I support the legislation.  I can see some circumstances where the exception is fulfilled and reasonable.  This isn't it, as is clear from the legislation and the facts at hand.

Also you seem to be suggesting that only women would be allowed to work for such an organisation.  Is that right?  Or just man the phones / chatrooms?

This is what happen when you let girls into the Scouts.  It all went downhill from there.

Your post of 13:34

In giving an example of a justifiable exception 

"it’s a more effective way to provide the service - for example, a father’s support group where men don’t attend the parents’ support group"

BTW I personally would probably have preferred to speak to a woman after the worst of my experiences.  Not sure whether that goes for all men.  I can entirely see why a woman may want to speak to a woman though.

Much of men forcing their way into women's provisions does seem to be "revenge" badman yes 

That sentence makes no syntactical or grammatical sense.  What did you intend to convey?

It clearly didn't or I wouldn't be asking you to clarify, would I?  

I think if you try your very very bestest you will get the jist. 

I am trying my hardest, but I cannot make head nor tail of it.  Neither what you said, nor the point you were intending to convey.

Ok well not sure why you want to engage with someone you find unintelligible. 

In giving an example of a justifiable exception 

"it’s a more effective way to provide the service - for example, a father’s support group where men don’t attend the parents’ support group"

But that's where the provider can show an unrepresented group ISN'T using a combined service.  That's not the case here is it?  

 

There are women who would not use a rape / sexual assault helpline that also caters to men and/or is staffed by men. Those women exist. 

I know women who won't contact rape crisis because it doesn't offer single sex provision.

I'm not sure why you think those women don't exist, but I assure you they do. 

 

So as I said, if you think it is ok to provide a parenting group for men who are uncomfortable in a mixed parenting group, I'm struggling to see why you think this exception isn't valid too. It's about something a hell of a lot more personal. 

Errr, yeah.  I can see why talking to a man on a rape line might be an issue for a victim.  Not all of the equality stuff makes absolute sense.  More PC bollocks to the complete exclusion of the application of common sense, in fact,.