disproportionate men's health vs women's health issues

This is said a lot on here but is it true?

As a man, I thought that it was the other way round resulting in Men having generally worse health than people with vaginas, as I think today's least polcitly correct term is. 

Of course as a man you thought it was the other way around.

Bulletin of the World Health Organization 2014;92:618-620. doi: http://dx.doi.org/10.2471/BLT.13.132795

In most parts of the world, health outcomes among boys and men continue to be substantially worse than among girls and women, yet this gender-based disparity in health has received little national, regional or global acknowledgement or attention from health policy-makers or health-care providers. 

 

That men tend to be in worse health than women has now been made clear by robust evidence from various sources. The Global Burden of Disease study led by the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation in 2010 (GBD 2010 study) showed that throughout the period from 1970 to 2010, women had a longer life expectancy than men.1 Over that 40-year period, female life expectancy at birth increased from 61.2 to 73.3 years, whereas male life expectancy rose from 56.4 to 67.5 years. These figures indicate that the gap in life expectancy at birth widened between the sexes to men’s disadvantage over those 40 years.

 

Oh... 

 

I think the issue is that more time and money is spent on research and drug development etc for combatting men’s health problems, not which gender is generally in better health. 

If men don't want to go to the doctor because they are too fucking stubborn then yes, they will be far more full of cancer or whatever before anyone spots it.

And women have always had a longer natural life expectancy than men even before modern medicine (excluding the high number that used to die in childbirth).

But if you look at the research and investment into men's health issues such as erectile dysfunction and you look at the lack of anyone giving a fuck about far more serious women's health issues, and the difference is quite stark.

There is an assumption in the medical and scientific research community that a certain amount of pain is all just part of being a woman, whereas it would obviously be unacceptable for men. The result: you can buy viagra in Wilkinson's but there is still very little effective treatment for conditions such as PCOS and endometriosis, little help for women suffering post-natal complications such as prolapse and incontinence, and still no effective contraception which doesn't cause unpleasant side effects in a large number of women. (But not for men, because there is no pill or implant or coil for men due to the risk of side effects.)

I'm just thinking about Anna posting about men who need Viagra when she clearly has no experience of not being able to get it up.  It's a serious problem that affects most men at some stage but is apparently funny.

In a lot of respects men have it "worse", globally: lower life expectancy, higher depression and suicide rates, longer working hours, more likely to be assaulted or killed by someone else, more alcohol and drug dependency.  Except the fat, white middle class ones who are the proper baddies.

There's effective contraception for both sexes that is pain and generally side effect free unless you're unlucky enough to be allergic to latex and even then there are latex free options.

 It's a serious problem that affects most men at some stage but is apparently funny.

Is it more serious than the multitude of women's health conditions which actually cause chronic pain but for which there is little or no effective treatment (and sometimes take ten years to diagnose because often male GPs don't take their female patients seriously)?

There's effective contraception for both sexes that is pain and generally side effect free unless you're unlucky enough to be allergic to latex and even then there are latex free options.

Not actually that effective and a lot of men won't use them because it takes away from their pleasure and they expect their partners to go on the pill instead.

I agree with the OP, no one ever offered me free tampons at school.

I can't respond as I'm not allowed to opine on female issues that I have no experience of.

But as to how serious it is generally it depends on your partner's reaction to it.

"But if you look at the research and investment into men's health issues such as erectile dysfunction and you look at the lack of anyone giving a fuck about far more serious women's health issues, and the difference is quite stark."

 

Erm you do know that viagra was not a drug developed for erectile dysfunction don't you? It was being developed for something else and the lobons were a side effect. This was also a private company that developed it because it would make them a lot of money. 

Not sure you picked a good example here. 

Fair enough but if a man won't use them it's generally a sign of stupidity and recklessness towards partners so best to dump them.

Biologically, males are the weaker sex: more likely to die in the womb, in infancy, in accidents as children, as adults (accidents, dangerous activities, war) , and in all deciles more vulnerable from serious or terminal illnesses. It's the XY chromosomes, which makes our immune systems weaker. 

Saillaw, that still doesn't address the relatively high failure rate of condoms. And of course it's the woman who has to have either an abortion or a baby if the condom breaks and she gets pregnant as a result. 

This thread was not to start a cripple fight - I am interested int he facts. 

Hence posting the WHO data above. 

 

I did just find this which is interesting: - 

 

research, funded by the American Heart Association and the National Institutes of Health, found that only 39% of women who have a cardiac arrest in a public place were given CPR, versus 45% of men. Men were 23% more likely to survive and one of the study leaders, Benjamin Abella, speculated that rescuers may worry about moving a woman’s clothing, or touching her breasts.

 

50p says some twat will pop up and blame #metoo

or maybe we just can't keep letting the "trolling" ( i.e. actual shit takes men think) go all the fucking time because this is his these shit takes gain and keep traction 

Viagra was initially being researched as a way to help heart conditions - obviously by increasing blood flow.  The scientists got suspicious when the patients were showing up with big smiles on their faces.

Anyway I don’t think it’s so much about men being priority, rather that there seems to be a reluctance to put things to research.  The pill for example, great idea let’s pump women with a shitload of external hormones, should work a treat.

Where is the men’s pill?  I’d happily take it.

30 minutes in and it looks like the chaps are winning. The simple strategy of providing at least some kind of actual evidence is serving them well.

It may also be that people simply don't know how to perform chest compressions on a woman, since it was only this year the first cpr dummy with breasts was manufactured. 

Also women's heart attack symptoms are different. 

 

Glad to hear it, Tecco. Seems odd to fill women with synthetic hormones to suppress ovulation when we are fertile about five days per month and can only carry one pregnancy to term per year when men are fertile all the time and could impregnate a different woman every day of the year. 

Well the men are "winning" on the basis that the op asserted a position (that men have shorter lifespans and generally worse health) that isn't disputed. So 🎉 well done 

Men die younger and have poorer health whist alive but of course all Anna can think about is whether or not her bloke can get a hard on. Typical.

your 

14:12

post suggested you might be. 

I was just checking. 

 

Nothing wrong with my husband's knob, I'm pleased to report. 

I was replying to Martian law not you. I know it's difficult for you not to assume every post is about you 

I did not assume it was to me. 

I was merely commenting upon its level of gibberish. 

I can see why people don;t offer to help women having a stoke now. 

hth

 

I thought the failure rate for condoms was less than 1%?  I've only had it happen once in well over 20 years.

A UK survey by Anglia Ruskin University, in 2011, found 70 out of 134 women would worry that their male partner would forget to take a pill.

 

but also: - 

 

Meanwhile, Prof Wang, Dr Stephanie Page, and colleagues at the University of Washington School of Medicine, have been testing another compound - DMAU - that they believe men could take as an oral daily contraceptive pill.

 

HEH

 

If men don't want to go to the doctor because they are too fucking stubborn

ah the old victim blaming approach. Nice.

And women have always had a longer natural life expectancy than men

ah the old Jordan Peterson 'it's only natural' approach. Nice.

not saying you are right or wrong but check your logical inconsistencies luv

But a necessity.  Trojan ultra thins don’t feel like they are even there, have to shop around for what works for you ofc.

Every woman has a man in her life who is too fucking stubborn to go to the doctor.

99.99% of the time I go to the dr, after the Mrs nags me to go. The Dr shrugs and says either leave it and see if it goes away or "its probably a virus, take paractoml and rest. 

 

I agree with Anna and I have written to the board of Wilkinson's to tell them that I I will not shop in there again until they start selling reconstructive surgery for endometriosis sufferers alongside their viagra.

Same thing with my dad, only he turned out to have a serious life limiting illness.

That reminds me I now have a chronic illness as apparently my shape is an illness and nothing to do with my lack of willpower when confronted with a cheeseburger.

But they don't sell gonadotropin-releasing hormone which is an absolute disgrace.

HANG ON JSUT ONE SECOND!

 

the whole point of viagra is for the benefit of women! 

ffs its effectly a woman pleasing drug. 

no one takes for a wank you know. 

 

“That reminds me I now have a chronic illness as apparently my shape is an illness and nothing to do with my lack of willpower when confronted with a cheeseburger.”

 

do you know what endometriosis is you utter thicko?

"until they start selling reconstructive surgery for endometriosis sufferers alongside their Viagra"

^ what Linda said but to ???

Seems to be a lot of vitriol directed at Sails on this thread.

Gwen do you not read the utterly stupid things that he posts? 

He does seem to go off at a tangent from time to time in a Roger Irrelevant manner but I don't recall him being nasty to anyone.

Says she who also goes off at a tangent quite often.

I do think that the idea doctors fail to diagnose certain pathologies in women because we don't take women seriously skips over some technical issues.

Nah he’s never nasty, he’s a nice chap.  Just diverts the conversation in weird directions.

You don't think comparing endometriosis to his self inflicted obesity is nasty? I do. 

It's ok Gwen.  Hools seems to have overlooked that my last post was in fact taking the piss out of myself rather than other people with genuine physical and medical conditions.

I am aware of endetoocomplicatedtospellitall and know a couple of sufferers but don't see what that has to do with taking the piss out of myself.

Yes yes everything you do and say is wonderfully amusingly self deprecating.  Sure sure. 

whatever dude 

Hools my post followed Anna's about her dad and his life limiting illness and certainly wasn't comparing obesity to any female conditions.  You call me humourless but go looking for a way to find anything I say offensive or inconsiderate.  How is abusing myself offensive to other people unless I'm indulging in a physical act of self-abuse in public but that would be really weird?

How is commenting on my lack of will power not self-deprecating?  Good god you can be obtuse at times.

Let me try and spell this out to you. 

 

We were discussing a chronic, poorly understood condition that blights women's lives. It can lead to cancer. It can lead to infertility. It is a serious condition. 

Your reflection in response to this was 

“That reminds me I now have a chronic illness as apparently my shape is an illness and nothing to do with my lack of willpower when confronted with a cheeseburger.”

when you post in this manner, and you do it a lot, I am going to point out how crass it is, and how poorly it reflects on you, ok? 

It's even worse if you were talking to Anna about her father's condition! Fuck me you are dreadful. 

Lady Penelope19 Jul 19 14:29

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Every woman has a man in her life who is too fucking stubborn to go to the doctor.

 

Well that's what happened to my Dad and he died.  But to make the woman the victim is only half the story.  You could say every man has a man in his life...etc.  But more importantly, why do men feel they can't go to the doctor?  Because they'll be seen as weak?  It might affect their earning capacity?  Who's the victim?

Once again I wasn't commenting on Anna's father and what happened to him but it simply reminded me of the ridiculousness that people are calling for being a bit tubby to be treated as a chronic illness rather than a lack of willpower.

Sorry I have a dark sense of humour as I come from a family full of tragic early deaths where we joke about such things to avoid to becoming totally depressed.  You should meet my father who's response to the design of the path to the front door of my house was "at least it's wide enough to drive the hearse up when you have to carry me out".

Re the Male pill - they developed one a few years ago. They stopped developing it during testing as it was felt that men would not accept the side effects of the pill to take it so it wouldn’t be commercial. The side effects were exactly the same as those from the female pill....

Exactly TC. EXACTLY 

I bloody hate what the coil has done to my periods (working at home today as bleeding so heavily) but at least I'm free of the hormones 

Hools my post followed Anna's about her dad and his life limiting illness and certainly wasn't comparing obesity to any female conditions.

Are you comparing it to Parkinson's disease then?

Women will not trust men to take it, so whats the point of the male pill?

 

 

Madness.  It should be on offer to men then we wouldn’t have people freaking out about getting spermjacked because if they’re so worried they can just pop a pill and figure out how to deal with the side effects as women have done for years.

I'm not comparing it to anything.  It just happened that Anna's post reminded me of something I've read and thought I'd have a laugh at my own expense and you might throw me a sandwich or the like.

I will in future make it clear when posting what is effectively a non-sequitur just to make it clear.

So how obese are we talking here sails? Do you bounce around the inside of the cabin?

Honestly, the only chronic condition you are suffering from is stupidity.

Tecco we're talking last time I went to the doctor I was obese by 0.5 on the BMI and I've lost weight since then so may now scrape into just being overweight assuming I haven't shrunk vertically as well.

Ok.... so neither chronic, nor in fact an illness.  Got it.

From what I read the other day mere obesity should be treated as a chronic illness which does seem somewhat ridiculous as I have already noted.

lack of a Male pill is nothing to do with side effects. It's that the incentivisation is Mis-matched. Women have more skin in the game 

Development of the male contraceptive pill was abandoned during trials because the men participating experienced some side effects. The same side effects that women often experience taking the contraceptive pill, but are expected to put up with.

Perhaps they should do a larger trial as different men experience things differently and others may take the view that the side effects are not that bad at all.

Yes Anna, trials run by a drug company who decided in that case that people (men) would not buy it enough to make the costs worthwhile. 

Its not a male conspiracy, its just business. 

 

It's also nothing to do with the inequality in heatlhcare outcomes

There are a hell of a lot of incredibly unfair and sexist things that you could brush off as "just business" if you were minded to do so.

Fortunately not all of them are as fundamentally important as healthcare.

heatlhcare outcomes are hugly in favor of women. The research is clear. 

But - it seems that more money is spent researching male disease than female. 

One could say "good the men obviously need the help" but that would be pure tunhunting. 

Wow, imagine being so stupid that you think "heathcare outcomes" can be reduced to a binary statement like that.

Did you read my Extract from the WHO?

"In most parts of the world, health outcomes among boys and men continue to be substantially worse than among girls and women, "

Yes the WHO is SOOOOO stupid.... 

 

To be honest, I do think that is a stupid statement, whoever is making it.

SO far I am the only person on the thread posting evidence. On both sides. 

I am pulling a joey face at you. 

 

So Anna on the subject of reducing things to binary statements how do you feel about the gender (or sex for Linda) pay gap?

For someone so committed to pretending to be woke you love using disablist language 

Actually viagra was a good example because when they first discovered in testing that it appeared to help other conditions including erectile dysfunction and PMS the big pharma companies decided to invest in the ED and ignore PMS 

in fact, studies into ED outnumber PMS studies by 1:5 I think in the UK 

Men getting hard dicks shouldn’t be the priority but it is no surprise that it is

likewise the trials for Male contraceptive pill referred to above just shed light on the difference in attitude towards suffering. Yes we are the stronger sex when it comes to pain, but men do need to step up and have their turn at polluting their bodies with chemicals to avoid having children rather than expect women to do so  and heh at condoms - yes they’re great and available and work well, but I don’t know a single man who would choose them over a woman dealing with the contraception...

I’m not sure that the WHO statement can be taken at face value because we don’t know all the factors taken into account.

E.g. In some parts of the third world the males may still need to continue working through illness or injury to be able to financially support the family, this will obviously impair recovery to a greater extent than some of the female work.

The whole thing is a huge grey area.

Dude, we have had a long discussion about the lack of research into women's health conditions and reliable contraceptives for men, to which you have contributed precisely fuck all.

Would you rather we talk about the fact that all the advice for recognising the symptoms of a heart attack and providing first aid are based on the symptoms as they present in men rather than women, meaning that a woman having a heart attack is less likely to be recognised as having one or treated appropriately?

Or the fact that women are less safe in cars than men because all the safety testing was done using crash test dummies modelled on the average adult male body?

Miss T - I regularly choose them over the female managing contraception because I don’t want my dick to fall off due to some ‘orrible disease...

I was thinking about it today. I often feel like the luckiest person on the planet. When does it end? I have seen my GP once in 12 years. I am 57. I had had one cold in 2.5 years. I never seem to have anything wrong, not a sdingl thing, not even headaches. What makes that so? I am just going through old family letters - now into the 1980s, uncles are sick and then dead. One's wife is 4.5 stone and both depressed, alcioholic and all sorts. Another wife  had diabetes.

"committed to pretending to be woke"

 

HEHE best joke of the week.