Dear Sirs

what is wrong with this?

Are we really that arsed about Dear Sir or Madam?

Nothing. Dear Sir or Madam is gloriously trans inclusive however.

I was surprised by the follow conversation on this subject when i first moved to Germany, when I saw Dear Madam or Sir

T Pot, Its normally Dear Sir or madam

T Pots German lawyer assistant, T Pot its better manners to put the woman first

T Pot , OK fair point

We have now arrived at a mandatory ‘Dear Freshfields etc’

I inadvertently (reflex after 20 years) wrote Dear Sirs and got told off my male boss who is gloriously woke but a complete bully to women.

We should all use Dear Khunts so you know who's a Roffer.

Given Freshfields is an LLP now not a partnership I should think no Messrs etc necessary.

Messrs is short for Messieurs which is both sexist and transphobic.

When you send an email to a solicitor’s email address: 

“Dear [first name],

Please confirm you are instructed in [blah]

kind regards,


[email sig with full name, etc]”

And then get a reply starting “Dear Sirs”... 

I hate this.  It’s as ignorant af.  

Agree Kimmy tho useful early heads up about the kind of people you have on the other side.

I always write Dear Sir /Madam. If I'm writing to a firm I'll write Dear Sirs / Mesdames. 

I am reactionary.   I want to go back to "Dear Sirs" and having a glass of wine at lunchtime.

I'm a feminist but I also believe in old-fashioned protocol. 

It seems this is actually more correct

mesdamesmessieurs, mesgenderfluid, mesnonbinaires

"I want to go back to... having a glass of wine at lunchtime."

I shouldn't recommend it. I tried that for a while, but a bottle is much more enjoyable. 

Kimmy, for some people it would be an absolute affront for them to use your actual own name without having met you in person

I'm with Judo on the wine front.  when i started a glass at lunch was normal, and a friday lunchtime sesh not unusual.  

Still par for the course in my sector. Law firms sound terrible places to work. 

I hate formalities and use first names much as possible these days.

Only blew back once. Some bell end sole practitioner replied "Kindly address me as Mr"

Ideally I'd like my staff to address me as 'Mr', never mind some pleb I've never met.

I used to refer to always refer to my secretary as Mrs [Nightingale] though I'd call her [Florence] to her face.

Once had client who insists on that Rex. He is a partner at a small law firm and prefers "Mr" because he says that it is better to address one another in those terms in case either of us ever us to sue one another. 

Ftse - I quite regularly get Dear Mole (if I may). Have not yet told them they may not, though usually tempted.

Rex - I hope you did then write just "Dear Mr" from then on.

Dux - I think I know the sector and it's much worse than many, it seems no incentive to modernise for most of the specialist firms.

I wrote a letter to Ms X and Ms Y the other day, and my secretary amended it to Dear Sirs on the outgoing copy

Didn’t even ask me. These older women don’t know what is good for them.

Dear Sir/Madam to firm. Dear Mr/Ms if to an individual.

Never had an issue with this approach. 

Heh @ Moley

I do, after a while, write "Dear Petula"

I once got "Dear Mr Ducks" in reply, so I took the hint.

In a perfect world, all written communication starts with

"Yo, "

I always refer to myself as Miss Carter, as you know never what thrusting young legal eagle is single and available.

I have an oppo I have dealt with many times 

Formal corespondence is always dear sirs 

but when I email him I always write Dear John...... regards Linda

and he always writes Dear Madam in reply 


Judo presumably if he's thrusting you actually *do* know.

Don’t do this sort of letter much (not a lawyer) but still use Dear Sirs for a company. 

If I know the person it’s first names if not then Mr/Mrs or Dr X. 

Slightly odd in my sector in that most seniors want first names but some old codgers still expect juniors to call them Dr Arsehole. I started when it was more common to call all seniors Dr X but it’s really changed for the better now. 

Currently involved in a shit kicking of a former director of a client. Until his various misdemeanours were discovered and he was fired obvs we'd use first names, he was the personification of the client. Now he's about to become a defendant so he gets letters saying "Dear Sir, we are about to tear you a new arse" and the response comes back "Dear [Buzzfirstgivenname], etc"

That is proper weird.

I’d always understood that when writing to a partnership (a proper one not LLP or that ilk) one did not write “ Dear Sirs” but just “Gentlemen”. 
Have seen quite a lot of correspondence mid last century to a law firm partnership in that vein - and likewise letters from the same period addressed to the C.Hoare & Co. private bank partnership. 

My tedious and shiny little egotistical turd


yours ....

my firm has a policy where we start letters to any lp/llp as

”dear Members”

which I love especially in litigation

I suppose these days it should be sir, madam or enbie

One of my little acts of rebellion against the overlords is to say dear sirs and wait for misogynistic cretin to tell me off. 

"One of my little acts of rebellion against the overlords is to say dear sirs and wait for misogynistic cretin to tell me off."

as a lawyer I admire your pettiness

all about the small victories

I detest it when I sign off with my full Christian name and a house chinny responds with “Dear Summs”.

I like to address any number or gender as 'Gentlemen' but if work catches me at it I think they'll make me stop.

I may not be the greatest lawyer Crypto but as the guy pleaded guilty to fraud in respect of the same matter we're going after him for in civil proceedings, I reckon even I couldn't fook this up.


R&Rd Judo