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A child born from statutory rape

Would it be in the public interest to allow the person born from statutory rape, to bring a prosecution against the person who raped their mother? If successful, it could then be used as a deterrent against potential rapists in the future.

 

 https://www.theguardian.com/law/2019/aug/05/woman-conceived-after-of-13-year-old-wants-birth-father-prosecuted

From a legal point of view I would guess it is a timing issue. At the time the crime was committed, she didn't exist.

That said, I do think it should be possible to prosecute in such cases. A DNA test would be pretty incontrovertible evidence of the crime.

Not really, Buzz.

Anyway, public interest, yes I think so. He's under 50 and still walking around freely as far as we know. This woman's birth mother is almost certainly not the only (underage) girl/woman he has raped.

No, it would not be in the public interest. But the techy legal arguments being made above, as to the timing issues, the fact that the particular  “victim”did not exist at the time of the crime, etc., are nonsense. Parliament is just as capable or passing an act saying someone can seek justice for a crime committed before their birth as it is of passing anything else. (So not very capable, then, based on recent experience. But equally not very capable.)

Aren't there some evidential issues?  If he says the sex was consensual how do you rebut that assertion if the other person who was involved won't give evidence?

If I were directly personally affected by the issue then I would be the worst person to be making decisions about it.

In any event, surely the guy in this case can “bring” a prosecution, in the sense that 99% of prosecutions are brought by the CPS so all he has to do is persuade them.

A 13 year old cannot consent, hence the whole "age of consent" thing 

whilst this might be rightly ignored in the case of 2 15 year olds, if one party was significantly older it wouldn't be. 

How old was the man?

OK, let's try again. If you and your 13 year old daughter lived next door to this man, would you hope that the CPS thought there was a public interest in prosecuting him? What about if he worked at your 13 year old daughter's school? 

Although it seems I have got his age wrong, if the child of the rape was born in the 1970s. Still age shouldn't be a barrier to having to pay for your crimes. 

"public interest" is a funny one. It was aaaaaaages ago, so those rapes don't matter?

 

Would be more interesting if it was a 18 year old and a 15 year old, and they subsequently married and raised a child with nothing but love and that child then sought a prosecution.  In that case, yeah - he's a rapist so there's always a public interest.  Solved it.

It is not relevant what I would think if I lived next door to this guy or had a 13yo daughter. 

I think it is in the public interest that he be prosecuted if the evidence can be assembled. However I don’t think it is in the public interest that the decisive factor should be whether the person born of his rape favours such prosecution or not.

I don’t really believe in private prosecutions. The decision should rest with the CPS. The feelings of the woman who was the actual victim of the crime, and who clearly doesn’t want to be put through it, should be afforded more primacy than those of her daughter here. If the CPS could prosecute the crime without needing to involve the mother then I think they probably should, but not solely because the daughter wishes to instigate it.

evidence - I am 20, my mother is 33.  Here's my DNA.

take the alleged-father'd DNA and test.

Simples.

 

You don't have to "believe in private prosecutions".  They're not the toothfairy or a good dal brexit, they actually exist.  Belief is what people have when they're fooking stupid.

Retarded post. Not believing in private prosecutions means I don’t believe they should exist because it is not in the public interest to have them. Learn to think.

Sorry I forgot she was underage.  Certainly there would be evidential issues if the lady in question was over the age of consent.

I love the whole question about how would you feel if this guy was your neighbour.  Most of us know virtually noting about our neighbours and could be living next to all manner of weirdos and criminals.  Maybe we should now do DD on our neighbours when buying a property.

it was flippant, not retarded and was a subsidiary comment to the substantive "gosh, where would they get the evidence".  It's a fooking calendar and two phials of blood. We live in a world where the UK police forces ask Jack Reacher, BA (hons), LL.M to carry weapons to safeguard the general population in their Milton Keynes industrial park in-house gig, so why not permit people to do start public prosecutions/freeman of the land etc..

 

I think it is in the public interest that he be prosecuted if the evidence can be assembled. 

The evidence would be the DNA test confirming her parentage and the respective ages of both her parents. 

And as I say, I think it would be in the public interest for him to be prosecuted if such evidence can be brought to bear.

The question asked was whether the initiative of the victim’s daughter should be determinative.

From what I can tell by reading this thread (and not the linked article), there isn't any dispute that this guy slept with a 13 year old (a long time ago). Therefore he is clearly guilty of statutory rape. 

The only real question is whether it is in the public interest to prosecute now, decades later - I don't see what the daughter's initiative etc has to do with it. 

Well from the report I've read they're not yet sure if he's still alive and no point going to the cost of prosecuting if he is indeed pushing up the daisies.

If he's arrested they can take a cheek swab and also blood / urine if there's senior officer consent. 

If he has a prior conviction, his DNA could be on file anyway. 

Presume the mother makes a "I was raped by that dude" claim too? Is more needed than that.  

 

No, that's the whole point. The mother does not want to be involved. 

 

But the CPS can take over a private prosecution, can't they?

 

Again, the point is the CPS won't prosecute without a statement from the victim - i.e. the mother. 

They don’t keep those files it seems.  In fact police records on the PNC are downright rubbish.  In the v distant past I was arrested and had all the DNA and electronic fingerprint scan (Paddington Green police station - a youthful indiscretion which ended with no further action).

Then later, they looked me up in a station in Hertfordshire (wasn’t youthful, was a misunderstanding so was released without charge, technically I was the victim on that one) and couldn’t find me so they took swabs and fingerprints again.

More recently still, in Essex, arrested again, released without charge after 14 hours as was clearly nonsense (ex wife trying to stir up trouble for me to put on the divorce papers), they looked me up again and yet again couldn’t find me.

A few months back (I roffed about this) I was a witness where a friend was arrested for ABH (he was released on bail and then no further action was taken FYI) and I could hear the police officer asking for a PNC check on me.  Nothing came up, despite having been detained in protective custody under section 136 of the mental health act twice in the previous two years!

Police force data management seems to be absolutely rubbish. 

Is this so difficult? The guy had sex with a 13 yr old as long as that was illegal in 1975 he should be prosecuted for a crime he committed unless we aren't bothering to prosecute crimes any more 

I would have thought that the evidence in the adoption files would be sufficient grounds to arrest him and compel him to provide a DNA sample which will either confirm his guilt or vindicate him.

Lady P - we are talking about a private prosecution here, and a private prosecutor does not have powers to compel the suspect to provide evidence.

So what you’re seeking here is a judicial review of the Police/CPS decision not to investigate/prosecute. That is a different legal test (Wednesbury unreasonableness as opposed to “public interest”). It should be open to the complainant to commence JR proceedings - the legal remedy is there. 

 

Thankfully I've never been in that situation but I think if I were, the satisfaction of knowing the fooker was behind bars would be better than any therapy. 

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