Team Smart reserving judgment til the holiday season is over, because that’s how it got in in the first place. Plus jab rates not high enough. Other than that, v good, have a star and a biscuit.
I love the prevalent conceit among zealots on here, to the effect that the virus turning out to be manageable somehow represents a defeat for “Team Sane”, ie the people who said the virus would turn out to be manageable.
Mega heh. Team sane said this would go on forever and ever and ever. They said there would be no vaccines. They basically wanted to concede defeat to the virus and just let it rip through our people. Great idea guys, except you can get reinfected so maybe not.
You can try and rewrite history, but we were all here to see it.
Person up and take your loss. There is no vaccine against being wrong.
But I’m confused. Starmer was warning us last week that the Johnson Variant is out of control and heading towards 100,000 cases a day. I think everyone is disregarding the NHS summer crisis we are facing.
No Laz. The point is that team sane and team zealot are now one and the same - the former want restrictions to continue because otherwise their lunatic hysteria was simply wrong; the latter want restrictions to continue because they’re terrified of a virus that is no longer a serious threat post-mass vaccination.
The “winners” here are reasonable people who understood that there was a time and a place for proper restrictions when there was no population immunity, but that time has now passed.
I don’t have a problem with most of the policy response but I wouldn’t have had a problem if they’d let it rip, either. I wouldn’t really care. Large parts of the US did let it rip and it’s not like everyone there is dead.
Vaccine passports are not an imposition (the NHS app is anodyne and the process takes <5 minutes) obviously a good idea if we want to avoid this clusterfvck of a government kneejerking back into lockdown in a couple of months.
Having to show proof of vaccine status absolutely is "an imposition". Hilarious how people rewrite reality to cope. "They said restrictions would last for years haha the fools *queues obediently to convince the bouncer/ hostess / ticket kid that they are "safe"*
And once again restrictions are still in place in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Claiming "it's over" just makes you seem like a yokel who never leaves your sofa.
And it specifically does not vindicate the people who said that the only way out was through, that is to say via mass infection. There weren’t many of those people but one of them was extremely vocal and persistent on this very message board.
I dunno Clergs in England it really is over bar the shouting. Travel is the most restrictive area but hopefully we’re moving in the right direction there too - we need to get the Middle East routes reopen soon.
The point of “Team Sane” was that with the current attitudes to Covid it will never be over. Because if you constantly freak out about variants, cases, and other what ifs it doesn’t matter how many are vaccinated or how many are in hospital - one must always remain “cautious”, hence restrictions always.
That attitude has changed a little but not a lot.
We are in the middle of the summer, schools and universities are shut, no one is really in the office, people are spending time outdoors. Of course there is a temporary relief.
I look forward to end of October when these things are reopened, it’s cold and wet outside, immunity from vaccines will be waning. Let’s see if Davos/RR will be able to smugly declare that it is “over” then as they are chugged out of their local spoons as Whitty announces new “temporary” measures to “relieve pressures on the NHS”.
RR, don’t know why you’re apparently ragging at me - I have always been on the actually same wing of team sane.
Very much not ragging you specifically. Just correcting the record. I never considered you part of team sane anyway given you accept the necessity of some restrictions and advocate for the vax.
Lockdown ended, travel opening, cases plummeting (% of positive test results too!) and even hospitalizations are coming down.
This does appear to me to be a victory to both 1) vaccines and 2) anyone who claimed that lockdowns aren't required to keep cases from going bonkers, the virus is gonna virus regardless of non-pharmaceutical interventions baring a total shut down of society
But point 2 is impossible to prove and no one here is going to change their mind anyway so best to just move on.
It is really tedious to read some of the above backslapping though, Laz is right I don't see this as some victory to Team Sane that lockdown ends and cases plummet anyway after Indie SAGE and Labour claimed they would skyrocket to 100k a day.
The point of “Team Sane” was that with the current attitudes to Covid it will never be over.
To the extent that “Team Sane” had a coherent position it was “if we just do as little as possible maybe everything will work out” and seizing as hard as possible on anything that might have suggested that was true. That’s why the same people vehemently against lockdowns are also vehemently against vaccines. It’s pure wishful thinking and evinces a basic childishness.
That’s why the same people vehemently against lockdowns are also vehemently against vaccines.
No one is against vaccines as such. To the extent there is opposition, it’s opposition to being forced/coerced to take one, especially if one is not at any serious risk of covid.
chimp - every single person in this country had their health harmed to "slow the spread".
There was no benefit to most of us in doing so. We were human shields so that hospital doctors didnt have to sadface tell an old person they were going to receive palliation and nothing more.
"I never considered you part of team sane anyway given you accept the necessity of some restrictions and advocate for the vax."
This is very convenient for you as it reduces membership of team sane to probably one person on rof. This allows you to have a 10 v 1 pile on against your chosen opponent and feel really good about yourself.
Chimp guilty above as well. There are hardly any anti vax on rof. Most team sane are pro vax.
Yes it is, thanks. Team Sane shed members until the only ones left were the cultists. They wouldn't even accept Guy Crouchback into the cult because he was impure.
Tell me you take rof too seriously without saying you take rof too seriously
Remember that time you made up an email from rof towers and then flounced about it for days. Then you came back? This is why I cant have irony meters any more.
Errrm not sure to be 'team sane' one has to be anti-vax. I have always thought the restrictions went too far but I am very in favour of vaccinations on a genuinely voluntary basis (and have been vaccinated myself). I do not agree that the individual risk/benefit analysis for vaccination supports vaccination in all adults. That view is shared, incidentally by European medical agencies in respect of the main vaccine used in the UK so it is hardly 'out there'.
I still think people should be offered vaccines 'for the greater good' as the risks are not that great to the individuals, but they should be offered them on the basis of fully transparent and honest information about the risks way (vaccinated or non vaccinated) which for the least vulnerable groups are pretty negligible.
People now saying “Er well I never thought that - only Clergham did really”. I’m not necessarily talking about you or even people here. Don’t take it personally.
Let’s distinguish between “people who thought lockdowns went too far” and “people who were frothingly pro-covid, anti-vaxxer death cultists”. Happy to acknowledge most people posting here weren’t the second. It’s a shame that one of the most vocal people here was.
Not sure any of the zealots on either side covered themselves in glory. Burning 300bn a year without effective vaccines was never sustainable, so at some point a version of "let it rip" had to be contemplated. Once vaccines were proven 000s dead a month wasn't defensible.
"Unlock now cos vaccines in cupboards" per Barry the Cab Driver et al was also stupid when demanded, as was "let's wait for a complete control set of data while whole industries die" from FeelingChill et al and all the smug "CASES UP" threads of the last few weeks.
Unfortunately we'll still have to endure "enjoy autumn lockdown" from people with no basis for it as wrong on the internet is too much to contemplate.
Apart from care homes and crappy semi-lockdowns for ages instead of hard ones, you can't really criticise this govt's handling of the entire thing, despite completely lucking out on vaccine contracts. In terms of relatively free countries that would struggle economically to completely isolate themselves, the UK is a model if you discount care home deaths (as is Sweden).
But maybe you just fancy an argument with Clergs? A lot of people seem to.
I do seem to end up pointing out how she’s wrong a lot. In fairness though she is a very prolific and quite aggressive poster. If you aren’t an anti-vaxxer and don’t agree with statements like “the vaccine is shit” then I’m obviously not talking about you.
"Unlock now cos vaccines in cupboards" per Barry the Cab Driver"
No you berk. It was always unlock now, because that was the alleged plan initially - i.e. unlock when groups 1-9 have been vaccinated, which was in March.
The reason for this argument is that people on both sides want to lay claim to what is happening in the UK right now.
The sensible wing of team data (ie not the bedwetters) are saying we've got the vaccine, finally time to get on with our lives. This is a level of risk we should accept.
And the sensible wing of team sane (not the anti vaxxers) is saying we've got the vaccine, surely you can all be happy now and we can finally get on with our lives like we've been saying all along.
Both sides want it to be their victory, as being right on rof is the most important of all prizes.
Team sane isn't a political party you berk. It is a group of people on rof who have made a number of statements and predictions about coronavirus over the last 16 months.
As each of their proclamations has been proven catastrophically wrong they have tried to shift and twist what they originally predicted and the cult members have either been jettisoned, left of their own accord or followed faithfully along with the rewriting of their own history.
If you can't see that then maybe you are one of the faithful?
Hence the attempt to redefine team sane by team data, the other side has to be wrong.
M7, just read the “Lads” thread. If you want to disavow Clergham’s views that’s fine but she is and has been a very prominent member of “your side”, such as it is
And what I’ve quite recently realised is that she isn’t an isolated nutcase, she is getting a lot of her views from anti-covid-acknowledgers generally.
Yep that article someone posted the other day was illuminating because it tracked so closely with the nutters on rof and their utterances. There are clearly a not insignificant number of them out there.
I supported LD1 and still think it was the right decision. I didn't really support LD2 but I think there was some logic to it. I didn't support LD3 at all. Whether I was right to oppose it we will never know.
I guess I fundamentally think the response was unbalanced. Civil liberties were seen as unimportant (and still this doesn't seem to be something lock down supporters accept). What I feared regarding mission creep and being ruled by experts did actually happen and I think there needs to be a serious day of reckoning for SAGE and Whitty. When they were wrong nobody brings it up with them and their lobbying role seems to continue.
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Team Smart reserving judgment til the holiday season is over, because that’s how it got in in the first place. Plus jab rates not high enough. Other than that, v good, have a star and a biscuit.
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I love the prevalent conceit among zealots on here, to the effect that the virus turning out to be manageable somehow represents a defeat for “Team Sane”, ie the people who said the virus would turn out to be manageable.
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Mega heh. Team sane said this would go on forever and ever and ever. They said there would be no vaccines. They basically wanted to concede defeat to the virus and just let it rip through our people. Great idea guys, except you can get reinfected so maybe not.
You can try and rewrite history, but we were all here to see it.
Person up and take your loss. There is no vaccine against being wrong.
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Team sane became team anti-vax which became team anti hand wash.
It's been a weird journey for them.
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But I’m confused. Starmer was warning us last week that the Johnson Variant is out of control and heading towards 100,000 cases a day. I think everyone is disregarding the NHS summer crisis we are facing.
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No Laz. The point is that team sane and team zealot are now one and the same - the former want restrictions to continue because otherwise their lunatic hysteria was simply wrong; the latter want restrictions to continue because they’re terrified of a virus that is no longer a serious threat post-mass vaccination.
The “winners” here are reasonable people who understood that there was a time and a place for proper restrictions when there was no population immunity, but that time has now passed.
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PS - oh no! A slapdown from “team smart” (heh) aka Cookie - however will I cope?
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I gotta lol @ what the chippy zealots are determined that Team Sane should have been/said.
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You can get reinfected btw but it is likely to be less bad the second time because immune response
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RR, don’t know why you’re apparently ragging at me - I have always been on the actually same wing of team sane.
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Restrictions are still very severe in most parts of the UK. England has just introduced vaccine passports that will become mandatory next month.
The hubristic it's over line is just... Tragically wrong. You were never reasonable to accept/ support what has happened.
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I don’t have a problem with most of the policy response but I wouldn’t have had a problem if they’d let it rip, either. I wouldn’t really care. Large parts of the US did let it rip and it’s not like everyone there is dead.
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but...but....Florida is so much different to the UK! It's hot and they have alligators.
The fact we're opening up now does not in any way vindicate the lockdown lovers.
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Vaccine passports are not an imposition (the NHS app is anodyne and the process takes <5 minutes) obviously a good idea if we want to avoid this clusterfvck of a government kneejerking back into lockdown in a couple of months.
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It's fascinating how authoritarian many people are not very far under the surface
completely normal to have to show ones papers to go out because of a poxy virus with a fatality rate of less than 1%. More of this please
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‘The fact we're opening up now does not in any way vindicate the lockdown lovers.’
vindicates the vax lovers tho
this is now a virus for anti vaxxers
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Having to show proof of vaccine status absolutely is "an imposition". Hilarious how people rewrite reality to cope. "They said restrictions would last for years haha the fools *queues obediently to convince the bouncer/ hostess / ticket kid that they are "safe"*
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The best thing that could happen in terms of immunity is for every single fresher to be infected in September.
But no, rules offer comfort to the fooktarded.
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And once again restrictions are still in place in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Claiming "it's over" just makes you seem like a yokel who never leaves your sofa.
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And it specifically does not vindicate the people who said that the only way out was through, that is to say via mass infection. There weren’t many of those people but one of them was extremely vocal and persistent on this very message board.
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Oh, look!
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I dunno Clergs in England it really is over bar the shouting. Travel is the most restrictive area but hopefully we’re moving in the right direction there too - we need to get the Middle East routes reopen soon.
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I’m afraid that saying this is the mark of an unsophisticate.
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‘in England it really is over bar the shouting‘
Yeah but that’s only 1/4 of the uk or something…
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🤡
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It’s far less of an imposition than another lockdown or the return of draconian restrictions.
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Or we could just not do any of that. That would be better
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If we're very very good and don't make any noise maybe daddy won't make us go in the cellar again
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I mean it's no big deal having to wear a tag and sign in everywhere you go what's the big deal that's not restrictions
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The point of “Team Sane” was that with the current attitudes to Covid it will never be over. Because if you constantly freak out about variants, cases, and other what ifs it doesn’t matter how many are vaccinated or how many are in hospital - one must always remain “cautious”, hence restrictions always.
That attitude has changed a little but not a lot.
We are in the middle of the summer, schools and universities are shut, no one is really in the office, people are spending time outdoors. Of course there is a temporary relief.
I look forward to end of October when these things are reopened, it’s cold and wet outside, immunity from vaccines will be waning. Let’s see if Davos/RR will be able to smugly declare that it is “over” then as they are chugged out of their local spoons as Whitty announces new “temporary” measures to “relieve pressures on the NHS”.
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Very much not ragging you specifically. Just correcting the record. I never considered you part of team sane anyway given you accept the necessity of some restrictions and advocate for the vax.
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Can we stop fighting yet?
Lockdown ended, travel opening, cases plummeting (% of positive test results too!) and even hospitalizations are coming down.
This does appear to me to be a victory to both 1) vaccines and 2) anyone who claimed that lockdowns aren't required to keep cases from going bonkers, the virus is gonna virus regardless of non-pharmaceutical interventions baring a total shut down of society
But point 2 is impossible to prove and no one here is going to change their mind anyway so best to just move on.
It is really tedious to read some of the above backslapping though, Laz is right I don't see this as some victory to Team Sane that lockdown ends and cases plummet anyway after Indie SAGE and Labour claimed they would skyrocket to 100k a day.
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Canadian - lockdown has not ended in all parts of the UK. And there is about to be a selective lockdown based on vaccine passports.
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Sorry Team whatever-not-sane is calling itself now*
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it is well seen how many people will tolerate authoritarianism just because it doesn't affect the things they personally want to do
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Some wet beds this morning from the usual cucks.
It's over. Chin on. Vaxx up.
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Fair point Clergs! I hope Wee Jimmy cranky lets Scotland free-er today?
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Ah there's Davos/TCV to resort to name calling and his usual pointless drivel posts
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no, there will be no meaningful changes (but she will spin it with "most restrictions are ending today" - which will simply be untrue)
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"selective lockdown based on vaccine passports"
Anti-vaccers locked up for their own safety?
Sounds about right. Natural selection, not selective.
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"Ah there's Davos/TCV to resort to name calling and his usual pointless drivel posts"
Did a mask make you cry?
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To the extent that “Team Sane” had a coherent position it was “if we just do as little as possible maybe everything will work out” and seizing as hard as possible on anything that might have suggested that was true. That’s why the same people vehemently against lockdowns are also vehemently against vaccines. It’s pure wishful thinking and evinces a basic childishness.
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Davos does post like he's had some sort of brain injury
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You ask if we can stop fighting and then post a cavalcade of horsec0ck about team sane being right all along about lockdowns.
This virus comes in waves, you can be reinfected, the categorically correct way to deal with it is to slow the spread while vaccines are developed.
Ways to cock it up include
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no, we should do nothing that uses human beings as shields
improve ventilation, hospital capacity etc by all means
but nobody wanted to do that for some reason
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"Davos does post like he's had some sort of brain injury"
Yeah i wore a mask and it injured me.
Megaheh.
Anti-vaccers are the nutters, don't forgot that.
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Meaningless.
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Are you going to select to lockdown Clergs or will you just get the vaccine?
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That’s why the same people vehemently against lockdowns are also vehemently against vaccines.
No one is against vaccines as such. To the extent there is opposition, it’s opposition to being forced/coerced to take one, especially if one is not at any serious risk of covid.
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I wouldn't frequent a venue that required a vaccine passport anyway.
So, no, I definitely won't be having a vaccine.
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chimp - every single person in this country had their health harmed to "slow the spread".
There was no benefit to most of us in doing so. We were human shields so that hospital doctors didnt have to sadface tell an old person they were going to receive palliation and nothing more.
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"I never considered you part of team sane anyway given you accept the necessity of some restrictions and advocate for the vax."
This is very convenient for you as it reduces membership of team sane to probably one person on rof. This allows you to have a 10 v 1 pile on against your chosen opponent and feel really good about yourself.
Chimp guilty above as well. There are hardly any anti vax on rof. Most team sane are pro vax.
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Yes it is, thanks. Team Sane shed members until the only ones left were the cultists. They wouldn't even accept Guy Crouchback into the cult because he was impure.
They. Are. Mental.
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nobody is anti vax
some people just choose not to have one for themselves
I am not currently taking antibiotics but I am not anti-antibiotics
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How lovely to be proven right so promptly.
Mental
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London feels absolutely completely normal, like Covid never existed
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"They wouldn't even accept Guy Crouchback into the cult because he was impure"
Tell me you take rof too seriously without saying you take rof too seriously
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"How lovely to be proven right so promptly."
Wtf??? Clergs is quite obviously your one chosen member of team sane I mentioned above. So it's me you've proven right. You're such a tit.
From now on you are reassigned to Team Ignore when it comes to covid. I'll challenge myself and allow two members in - you and Davos.
Congratulations, you are the less extreme wing of the team.
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Remember that time you made up an email from rof towers and then flounced about it for days. Then you came back? This is why I cant have irony meters any more.
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Errrm not sure to be 'team sane' one has to be anti-vax. I have always thought the restrictions went too far but I am very in favour of vaccinations on a genuinely voluntary basis (and have been vaccinated myself). I do not agree that the individual risk/benefit analysis for vaccination supports vaccination in all adults. That view is shared, incidentally by European medical agencies in respect of the main vaccine used in the UK so it is hardly 'out there'.
I still think people should be offered vaccines 'for the greater good' as the risks are not that great to the individuals, but they should be offered them on the basis of fully transparent and honest information about the risks way (vaccinated or non vaccinated) which for the least vulnerable groups are pretty negligible.
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You're confused. I was right about them being mental. I don't know what you are being weird about now.
Please go ahead and ignore. I don't know who you are anyway.
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’Errrm not sure to be 'team sane' one has to be anti-vax‘
they didn’t want the vaccines to work because they wanted to be right on the internet. Properly mental.
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I am joining spurius in this shunning
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the vax lovers are entirely vindicated; the vaccines are the permanent way out of this, as is already proven.
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England is about 80% of the U.K. HTH
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Team shun have run out of arguments and are now literally putting their fingers in their ears and going "lalala I can't hear you".
Love. To. See. It.
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Fence Foal once again adhering to a fictionalised account of who team sane are and what they believe
team sane have always believed the virus would be conquered, including by vaccines
anti vax extremists are not and never have been team sane HTHHTHHTHHTH
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"Remember that time you made up an email from rof towers and then flounced about it for days."
I didn't make it up. Email maffew OBE and ask him if you want. Irrelevant to me.
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Right, I’m bumping the thread. You’ve driven me to this.
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Ok
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Basically what Laz said throughout this thread.
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People now saying “Er well I never thought that - only Clergham did really”. I’m not necessarily talking about you or even people here. Don’t take it personally.
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Let’s distinguish between “people who thought lockdowns went too far” and “people who were frothingly pro-covid, anti-vaxxer death cultists”. Happy to acknowledge most people posting here weren’t the second. It’s a shame that one of the most vocal people here was.
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I have read somewhere that the vaccine contains transmitters that beam your details to Langley
I pray that this is untrue
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Having read the bumped thread, clergs doesn't actually seem to be that wrong
the vaccine doesn't actually stop people transmitting the virus does it
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and it was used as an excuse to lockdown for more than half of the year
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Bollocks, team sane is a rof term.
If you're having a go at anti-vaxxers who are not on the board, because it's an easy target, it's got nothing to do with team sane.
It's also pointless because unless you fancy an argument with Clergs, pretty much everyone here agrees with you.
But maybe you just fancy an argument with Clergs? A lot of people seem to.
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just a few more weeks!
how many people didn't have any more weeks after that? I am sure they are glad to have sacrified for the Greater Good tho.
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Err clergs said on that thread
Whereas in reality it is very effective. As long as you, you know, take it rather than try and freeride.
Be less wrong about stuff please.
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@chimp 10.04 obvs
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Not sure any of the zealots on either side covered themselves in glory. Burning 300bn a year without effective vaccines was never sustainable, so at some point a version of "let it rip" had to be contemplated. Once vaccines were proven 000s dead a month wasn't defensible.
"Unlock now cos vaccines in cupboards" per Barry the Cab Driver et al was also stupid when demanded, as was "let's wait for a complete control set of data while whole industries die" from FeelingChill et al and all the smug "CASES UP" threads of the last few weeks.
Unfortunately we'll still have to endure "enjoy autumn lockdown" from people with no basis for it as wrong on the internet is too much to contemplate.
Apart from care homes and crappy semi-lockdowns for ages instead of hard ones, you can't really criticise this govt's handling of the entire thing, despite completely lucking out on vaccine contracts. In terms of relatively free countries that would struggle economically to completely isolate themselves, the UK is a model if you discount care home deaths (as is Sweden).
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I'm not wearing a tag (!?!?) and haven't had to sign in anywhere for weeks now.
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I do seem to end up pointing out how she’s wrong a lot. In fairness though she is a very prolific and quite aggressive poster. If you aren’t an anti-vaxxer and don’t agree with statements like “the vaccine is shit” then I’m obviously not talking about you.
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Yeah life is hard if you fabricate restrictions that don't exist.
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Maybe just quit the whole idea of “team sane” since not even the people who self-identify as members can agree on what it actually is.
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'Apart from care homes'
It was NHS medics who made this decision
Not the Government
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‘Listen to this and hear it
A vaccine won't change this
You know that‘
this aged like milk
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"Unlock now cos vaccines in cupboards" per Barry the Cab Driver"
No you berk. It was always unlock now, because that was the alleged plan initially - i.e. unlock when groups 1-9 have been vaccinated, which was in March.
Hope this helps.
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@10.15 it's pretty obvious what it broadly is.
But like any broad view, within that there are obviously big divergences of opinion.
I look forward to you advocating for all political parties to disband because people can't agree on everything.
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The reason for this argument is that people on both sides want to lay claim to what is happening in the UK right now.
The sensible wing of team data (ie not the bedwetters) are saying we've got the vaccine, finally time to get on with our lives. This is a level of risk we should accept.
And the sensible wing of team sane (not the anti vaxxers) is saying we've got the vaccine, surely you can all be happy now and we can finally get on with our lives like we've been saying all along.
Both sides want it to be their victory, as being right on rof is the most important of all prizes.
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Hence the attempt to redefine team sane by team data, the other side has to be wrong.
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Heh at comparing a loose collection of posters on a message board to “all political parties”
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Team sane isn't a political party you berk. It is a group of people on rof who have made a number of statements and predictions about coronavirus over the last 16 months.
As each of their proclamations has been proven catastrophically wrong they have tried to shift and twist what they originally predicted and the cult members have either been jettisoned, left of their own accord or followed faithfully along with the rewriting of their own history.
If you can't see that then maybe you are one of the faithful?
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M7, just read the “Lads” thread. If you want to disavow Clergham’s views that’s fine but she is and has been a very prominent member of “your side”, such as it is
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It seems more of a religion than a political party.
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And what I’ve quite recently realised is that she isn’t an isolated nutcase, she is getting a lot of her views from anti-covid-acknowledgers generally.
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Yep that article someone posted the other day was illuminating because it tracked so closely with the nutters on rof and their utterances. There are clearly a not insignificant number of them out there.
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I supported LD1 and still think it was the right decision. I didn't really support LD2 but I think there was some logic to it. I didn't support LD3 at all. Whether I was right to oppose it we will never know.
I guess I fundamentally think the response was unbalanced. Civil liberties were seen as unimportant (and still this doesn't seem to be something lock down supporters accept). What I feared regarding mission creep and being ruled by experts did actually happen and I think there needs to be a serious day of reckoning for SAGE and Whitty. When they were wrong nobody brings it up with them and their lobbying role seems to continue.
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Cryppers I really hope that SAGE and Whitty do end up being jailed. Not because they deserve to be, but because it would make you so happy.
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Heh. It would. It would be the best thing ever to see that. Whitty could wear a suit with little arrows on it.
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