Biden
Sir Woke XR Re… 08 Jul 24 02:13
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Inwas previously of the Ceiling Cat view that replacing him was a pipe dream.

But I think the clamour - including from within his own party - has now got to the point where his stabd-down is likelier than not.

It’s notable that the Republicans have toned down their highlighting of his age lately…  his replacement with a younger candidate wouldn’t be to their advantage, given how Harris, M Obama, Newsom poll against Trump.

This week is shaping up to be crucial. If he can get through it without the noise for him to step down growing any louder then it looks like he’ll survive this and remain the Dems candidate. 

Can’t see them going ahead with another debate after that though. Even if it was after the Democrats convention, another performance like that would kill voter turnout and practically hand Trump the presidency.

The real problem he has i think is how do the left leaning media (who tend to have some sort of principles) swing behind him for the race when so many big voices have said  effectively that they don’t think he is physically up to be being POTUS. 

I don’t think him going is a pipe dream at all by the way. I do think Michelle Obama replacing him is West Wing fantasy land stuff given she has has never held elected office and pretty clearly doesn’t want to do it. 

 

Replacing Biden is ridiculous. 

He has won the Dem nomination via the same primary process as Trump has.

It’s beyond insanity that he is being asked to step aside for the crime of being old.. when Trump is almost the same age, a rapist and convicted felon who master minded an attempted coup. 

The only reason the media is pushing this is for ratings and because their corporate masters actually want Trumps promised tax cuts. 

It’s a complete load of undemocratic bullshit. 

Wot she said. It’s all utter bollocks. If the Dems got the same amount of support from the media there would be stories all over about Trump’s dementia and criminal past. Check out the Epstein papers. Fvcking disgusting. 

So Biden didn’t have a great debate. 

He isn’t the one standing at rallies talking about sharks, batteries, windmills, water pressure and Hannibal Lecter.  Raw dogging porn stars, with his name throughout the Epstein papers for sexual abuse of minors, with obvious signs of dementia. 

A man not even permitted to own a gun or sell liquor.. who is running to be handed the nuclear codes and the worlds biggest military.

Where are the outraged calls  for Trump to stand aside?!? 

Completely disagree Scylla. That's just two wrongs dont make a right.

As the evidence of Biden's diminution gathers, votes will disperse, even if it's people who say 'I wont vote at all'. Every potential Republican will do so if Biden is the alternative. A credible candidate is an absolute must. This will only get worse and Biden is quite possibly past the point where he can even work out what is happening to him.

 

 

 

Biden is a credible candidate and he has been selected through the same nomination the.

Biden has been in the job for 3 years and has a stellar record of achievement. 

fook off with your both sidesing 

PS the idea, so beloved of so many of the “lawyers” who post on this board that somehow everything will be alright if the rest of the world just does what they say, no longer holds water in a world facing fascism. Labour won here last week by gaming the system ruthlessly, far beyond the facile explanations bandied about. And if you want Biden to win, and preserve your free world, then you’d better start to do better in the face of the bad guys. Because they don’t give a fvkc about you, or your families, and will happily demolish every part of your lives,  without exception. And still you swallow the fascist agenda like a navvie down the docks. Shameful. May you reap what you sow.

Scylla you're right of course that trump is worse in almost every way, but he will campaign on whatever he can and the fact is he has some weird voodoo going on to make him appear more energetic than Biden and it will cost Biden the election. It's not about what's objectively right or fair or democratically sound, it's about how the fvck do we keep trump out the white house and post-debate I believe Biden would lose. 

I can’t find it now but I read an article that said it was almost impossible to replace him (unless he died) because of timelines for ballots. The DNC isn’t happening for another few weeks yet the ballot deadlines on some states are ahead of this (or something). 

Bertha, suppose you briefed a renowned Silk in 2023 for the biggest and most significant case of your career listed for a month in November 2024 and somehow I had instructed you as my solicitor.

Last week, we went for a consultation, and we both felt he was behind the game and alarmingly absolutely not the same man who we both admired greatly this time last year, and both sensed the alarm bells.

If you assured me that 'it will be alright on the night Prodigal' in spite of what we both saw with our own eyes, I would remove you as my solicitor. I would not want to reap what was so obviously being sown.

‘Bertha, suppose you briefed a renowned Silk in 2023 for the biggest and most significant case of your career listed for a month in November 2024 and somehow I had instructed you as my solicitor’ 

The key difference here of course being that the duties and role of a silk are not at all comparable to that of POTUS wherein POTUS if he is half way decent will have an established and competent team he can delegate the actual stand up work to 

And what Crypto said. 

It is pretty much impossible to replace Biden as the candidate for process reasons.  So all this handwringing about whether or not he should be the candidate serves only one agenda. 

‘It's not about what's objectively right or fair or democratically sound, it's about how the fvck do we keep trump out the white house and post-debate I believe Biden would lose. ‘ 

If they lose with Biden, they lose with every other possible candidate too. 
 

And again the clearest evidence how few of you are in the real world. Biden is the candidate. Back him. Stop fantasising what could have happened if only those pesky Dems had taken your advice. You don’t actually run anything do you? Just pick holes in the way other people do after the fact. 

Scylla 

Biden is a political candidate that eff’d up. Sorry but wishes mean nothing when the candidate so visibly displays such weakness 

Given what is at stake I understand why he (and supporters like Bertha) are taking such a brittle stance 

But the electorate sympathy (in the UK and US) basically isn’t enough /they don’t care. Unless Biden either

 gets a job related opportunity to shine before November or 

if he can beat the shoite out of Trump in the next debate  and does the equivalent of a series of mental backflips 

then that impression isn’t going to change 

Biden can either fix this by demonstrating  mental and physical acuity or he’ll lose and the opposition to Trump (which is wider than Biden) needs to pivot to a new strategy 

Sure it’s unfair that Trump is a useless lying shoite gibbon who has neither the moral or mental qualities to lead but THAT ISNT HOW HIS SUPPORTERS SEE HIM 

yes, that can change but “ same to you “ is no longer a winning strategy after that debate 

And I understand all that Asti.

Perfectly well. 

But the means do not exist to replace Biden at this stage. 

No other candidate can step up and win. No other candidate has the policy platform, has been elected by the Democratic Congress, has the primary votes, have any fundraising in place or any campaign staff on the ground. 

 No other democratic candidate even  qualifies to participate in another debate with Trump. 

It is too late to replace him.  I’m not blind. I can see he isn’t perfect and that there are a lot of things that the Dems could have done better. 

But if your solution is to switch horses mid race then you may as well hand the Oval Office to Trump. 

And that’s before we even consider the infighting and factional bullshit that would consume the Democratic Party in trying to choose a replacement. 

All while Trump sits back and laughs. 

My understanding is biden isn't even nominated yet 

So it can happen

But yes it's hard 

It's either that or hand trump the white house 

Changing candidates the least worst option 

Scylla

It looks like we  agree that the Anti Trump movement has failed by building up a basically decent but fundamentally flawed candidate, atm there is no realistic alternative and no clear mechanism to change 

I think we disagree that it’s a bigger risk to try

I hate hate hate it but a fresh skin that floods the US consciousness with a positive energy might strip away the Biden focused Republican narrative IF it breaks through 

Basically a repeat of the Obama miracle campaign 

and that ain’t Harris btw 

As I have previously said, I would vote for Biden over Trump even if Biden was in a coma or dead. I think Biden has been a pretty good president and am an admirer of him generally.

However, I think it is indisputable that Biden is now too old and infirm to be re-elected. I agree Trump is also unfit for office, for many reasons, among which is the fact that he is also old and appears to be losing what previously passed for his brain. That does not alter the fact Biden is too old and is not now up to the job. 

He has to be replaced and if he is to be replaced it should be done as soon as possible. 

Biden has had one bad debate. 

Hillary had a cough because she had pneumonia and everyone wrote her off 

 

The GOP and trump are running the exact same tactic and everyone is falling for it all over again.

 

It's obvious that Biden has problems that make him unfit to remain president for the next 4.5 years. Everytime he manages to read a few statements from an autocue are advertised as a win now. That's an extremely low bar, and even that bar he occasionally fails to clear. 

It's equally obvious that those problems make it impossible for him to get reelected. Replacing is the only sensible option, but he (and his wife) will have to acknowledge this himself. I'm afraid that's not going to happen, so we'll end up with a far more dangerous and hardly more fit Trump again. 

Where are the outraged calls for Trump to step aside as an unfit candidate? 

Why the double standard? 

I agree on this observation, but the problem is that on that side of the political spectrum they don't do facts. the FOX-type media just ignore or deny it. The non-FOX media are too afraid of being seen as partisan and go mild on Trump. 

And to be honest, Trump may be far worse than Biden in a zillion ways, but cognitively his decline seems to be slightly less severe. Partly because he didn't start at a very high level to decline from, of course. 

My understanding is that until the convention he's not the official candidate and can be replaced fairly simply.

I've heard rumours from people across the pond that there was always a plan to replace him around now although that doesn't really seem a great plan to me.

I wouldn't want to be a US voter confronted with two options who shouldn't have their finger anywhere near the nuclear button.

Ricky needs to look up schism

Scylla and I are ad idem on this. 

Because it’s a simple point. 

Many of you really need to do a lot more reading in before starting to crap on like the clearly average practitioners you are. 

No double standard -  99% of the world outside the USA thinks that Trump is wholly unfit to be President and has been saying this since 2016.

Check the title to thread if in any doubt.

Why the double standard? 

You can ask this question till you're blue in the face and of course you are right in principle, we need to accept and deal with the reality that neither you nor I can change which is that there is a double standard.

srsly hanners, ur sounding quite worryingly tense

take a break from rof, give urself some time 2 mourn

otherwise i am concerned u will dissolve in the acidity of ur humiliation over these last few days

that bbc article is a bit unrealistic in my view

I very much doubt the democrats are going to have an openly hostile attempt to remove Biden

if he goes, he will go "voluntarily", which may not be voluntary but will amount to leading donors and bigwigs telling Biden he has no choice

Scylla/Bertha - Biden is not being asked to step aside (by those who are asking) because he is old. He is being asked to step aside because he appeared in public, literally unable to string a sentence together/sounding obviously confused and so far hasn't been able to explain why it was a one off or at least not reflective of him on a day to day basis. He certainly hasn't gone out and done a tough interview or something else that requires him to think on his feet/not read off an autocue  and knocked that out of the park as an obvious rebuttal. If he could (reliably) do that you have to think they would have done it.  The delegation/team around him thing is bullsh1t. There are some calls that the President HAS to make themselves.  There seems to be some leaked messaging that Biden gets tired in the evening and is much better during the day which is fine until the Chinese missiles land in Taiwan at 3am and the US has to respond.  Most importantly of all if Biden carries on he is going to lose and Trump will be POTUS again. 

Trump is unfit to be president, but not the in same way. He is a lying scumbag but he is not showing his age in the same way.  

What planet are you on Bertha? Did you watch the debate?  Link us up to something recent where he isn't reading a script. 

Because never mind a tough interview there isn't even a soft one. Listen to John Major (who is the same age as Biden) being interviewed on the rest is politics and tell me honestly you think Biden could do the same thing in the same way. John Major could (although he would have the sense not to) still convincingly be PM. 

This isn't about age per se. In fact perhaps the best way to think about it is to imagine that a presidential candidate in his 50s had performed exactly the same way Biden has in a TV debate and ask what the response would be. 

Wow Cookie - your arrogance is truly shining through here. What is it exactly that you do that makes you more qualified to opine on this? Seems to me that you’re just another one of us middle-aged, average practitioners with no better a viewpoint…..just a different one. 

Nobody is going to win the Presidency when the public (rightly) SAW (not think) that he can't even finish his sentences.

The Dems switch candidates or they lose.  Admittedly, they're potentially stuck with Harris if they switch for numerous reasons, but I'd take Harris over Biden.  He clearly isn't up to the job now, never mind at 85 FFS.

It’s a  very interesting study in human/organisational  ‘psychology’. 

Apart from the completely delusional:

-everyone could see this coming

-everyone knows he’s unfit 

And yet they won’t change candidate, and so Trump is likely to win. 

Why?

 

Institutional innertia.

I think they think there is no path to a candidate other than Harris, and Harris will lose.

I think Harris will probably lose, but has to have a better chance than Biden.  He's barely fvcking sentient FFS.  He will definitely lose it again during the campaign or be so protected the US public think they're being lied to.  The only way for Biden to avoid defeat is another debate where he can actually make a point without wandering off and soiling his sanitary pads, but he's not up to it.  Everyone can see that.

I share Scylla's frustration that the democrats are pissing themselves on this issue, and turning inwards on themselves - I wish they would spend half as much time attacking Trumpian and Trump-enabled policies!

There is clear evidence that growing awareness of the horror of Project 2025 is damaging the Republicans and Trump, so much so that Trump is starting to distance himself from it - the Democrats should be spending every fecking minute hammering home the message that a vote for Trump is a vote for Project 2025, and a return to a world in which pretty much everyone who isn't wealthy, straight, male and white risks being marginalised all over again - a return to a "golden age" that was only golden for a very small proportion of the population. 

Instead, they are doing Trump's / the Republican's job for them - I'm sure it's no coincidence that Trump has been astonishingly quiet since the debate, considering that he was pretty much handed Biden's arse on a platter.   Of course, there is the fact that he is no better state than Biden; in fact, in my opinion, his mental state is considerably worse (I mean if we are judging someone on their command of a teleprompter, we can at least acknowledge that Biden can still read one and say the words as if he understands them and recognises them as actual English words).  But there is also the fact they are currently watching the Democrats rip themselves apart more effectively than the republicans managed so far - Trump doesn't need to do a damn think, just sit back and let the Dems implode themselves.

It's infuriating.

Of course the Dems should be attacking Trump. And in fairness CNN and the like spend a lot of time attacking Trump. 

But do you realise how breathtakingly dishonest and arrogant it appears for the Democratic machine to be denying to the public something that is obvious to anyone with half a brain cell - that Biden is not mentally fit to run a small business let alone run the USA until 2028. These are meant to be the adults in the room and they are pathalogically lying on a mahoosive scale to the electorate. How the deniers on this thread can attempt to talk sanctimoniously about this election is beyond me. 

Yes. That was also the economist’s point. But it’s standard practice for the democrats, like when they hid fdr’s disability or jfk’s womanizing from the electorate. Only this time, everyone’s seen

What Wilf said.

"But Trump is worse" doesn't work when it's obvious Biden is a vegetable.  Trump is disgusting human being I'd like to be taken out with a head shot, but he's not a vegetable like Biden.

Repeating for Cookie, Scylla and Cru:

If it is possible for the Democrats to run on a different ticket (which it clearly is) then would you prefer to stick with Biden or opt for another candidate (accepting that this isn't straightforward)?

Gorlami - their point I think is that we should just wait and see what the democrats do and then get on social media and whole heartedly support what our betters have told us is the 'correct' answer. Why? Because that is essentially what the Trump side does and anything else is just helping them and therefore 'shameful'. It's democracy as tribalism at it's worst tbh. 

I agree the democrats are ripping themselves apart and it is infuriating but the reason it is happening is that one faction is determined not to take account of a change in the facts (i.e. we now pretty much know Biden isn't physically fit to be president) that has occurred since the (entirely uncontested) primaries. 

 

That would depend on the candidate!  Of course, if there is a Democrat candidate that looks likely to beat Trump, why on earth wouldn't I prefer him or her to Biden? Even aside from any questions about his mental acuity, Biden is unquestionably very physically frail, he is very much an 81 year old 81 year old - I've repeatedly queried why Newsom isn't the candidate, it seems to my (foreign, so what do I know) eyes, that he is a dream candidate.  Given that he is still not being suggested as a viable alternative, I can only assume that the people who actually live there know more than I do.

And, I've also repeatedly said that I view Biden as the right man for the job only because I didn't think that the - extraordinarily talented - crop of Democrat incumbents had a good enough chance of persuading the sizeable number of disaffected non-Trumpist republicans to vote for them, on account of being too young, black, gay, female, Jewish or Latino.

I know this will come as a shock to you, given your one issue obsession, but - while I think that Biden (or his puppet masters, if you prefer) has done a remarkable job so far - all I care about at this moment is that Trump gets beat, not that Biden remains president.

As for Dalek - presumably, you've heard of Ronald Reagan?  Seriously, how did you get so stupid?  Did you sustain a head injury, or were you born this dumb?

He's far frailer, both mentally and physically, than loads of 81 year old.

Indeed, my Dad is over 10 years older and is still as sharp as a tack.

The desperate waffle coming from the Biden apologists increasing resembles the stuff that the USSR and Iron curtain states came out with when they wheeled out some decrepit husk of a 'great leader' back in the Cold War.