Are you communicating from the 1850s? That might explain it.

They are clearly not that successful, and are struggling to pay the bills. Avoid.

Can be very expensive to move sets. Friend of mine was held to a ridiculous contributions scheme by his old set after leaving. Think he had to pay contributions based on what he would have billed had he seen out his notice period and a proportion of his billings at his new set. All seemed pretty shoddy to me.

This is quite normal for other professional services partnerships full of self employed partners.

Is low value PI finally going down the shitter post Jackson?

Are wig-jockey outfits now structured as corporate bodies these days or is this chap talking per rectum?

Some chambers are yes Buzz, or more accurately incorporated service company that pay the rent, IT, and staff wages, etc, etc. As the OP describes it is a huge red flag.

I hope low value PI is going down. PI is a moral free vacuum of dull monotonous work. It reduces immoral money grabbing lies to a set process which I guess is the only good thing you can say about it - takes the emotion out of cheating.

this chambers is over several cities and is incorporated. All of the above is accurate.

Also anecdotally I think you may be right that these guys aren’t as successful as they suggest.

ranked in several areas, but it made me think that chambers rankings outside London are somewhat easier to get. Eg you search judgments for some of their ranked guys and you find that they’ve hardly been in court in said area over the last two years (in an area where all judgments are available online).

Some of the larger regional sets are worried about being used as launchpads for better chambers in London and so impose these penalties to keep people from leaving. 

Have you spoken to a recruiter?  Our chambers used GRL Legal to find lateral hires. They were very good, run by two former head clerks who understand the profession, and I know they help place barristers looking to move.  They’d be able to tell you if what you describe is normal.  I’d also be put off by this tbh.

If that’s genuinely some measure to try to keep people prisoner, that’s genuinely pathetic and off-putting in itself.

I have been loathe to use recruiters... might give it a go.

fact is though, this process is making me realise more and more I need to get the hell out of law. Just can’t figure out what I’d do.

I know of one very large and apparently successful London set which charges a five figure sum to lateral recruits 

my set certainly doesn't do anything like that

I don't think you should write off the set solely because of that, though, it'll just be because they don't have very much working capital which may be a management decision 

what area of work would you like to get into?

Employment heff.

I suffered from a) arriving post pupillage in a market where employment law basically didn’t exist, when tribunal fees were brought in, and

b) every opportunity I’ve had at the bar being PI related, which I absolutely detest.

I had some success getting my own employment work in but there are limits to this when you are fighting a one man battle and your clerks are actively opposed to it.

Not going to be any shortage of people losing their jobs and not being paid their salary over the next few years so it seems like an ideal time to get into it. 

Legal recruiters is a good idea. 

I'd say going to a big set out of London is probably a good idea then

Clerksroom?  

Also see Chambers People | Counsel (counselmagazine.co.uk)

I’m at a well known set that is highly regarded so it would look weird if I went somewhere that people perceived to be a big step down.

im also at the stage where I need to get settled in one set for 10 years min - too much chopping and changing is bad for stability and also makes you look a bit mad.

Next move needs to be the right one, long term.

me and the missus have been looking outside London due to a mixture of Covid destroying our finances, needing to buy a house some time soon, and family reasons. Even in the largest northern cities though, you don’t have to go too far down the ladder before you are pretty much scraping the barrel, even for sets with decent chambers rankings, it would seem.

I have dealt with some absolutely amateur rubbish in some supposedly reputable northern / midlands (employment) chambers. Some very average counsel coupled with dreadful clerks / service on basic matters.

Parklane Plowden in Leeds and Newcastle are really professional and pretty trusted in my experience. Not instructed too many of their senior juniors - often worth looking further afield at that sort of level - but I’ve never been let down by any of their counsel. 

Thanks nb, that’s useful. interesting that you haven’t recommended any of the large Manchester sets.

Will look into Parklane Plowden, though don’t have any connection to Yorkshire/North East - my connections are North West.

I’m not based in Manchester but I have asked quite a few people about the regional employment bar there - including other barristers, solicitors and a fee-paid judge - and the feedback wasn’t particularly encouraging.

Apparently instructing from London is more common that other regions. That might be more common across the board in future with hearings still being listed by video.

I don’t know enough about any of the chambers there to offer a specific view so this is pretty much entirely anecdotal.