consider also air pollution and water quality

this thread is not wildly different in tone and substance to that found in a Mail comment

To be fair Macron is ballsing up his own country and German politics seems to be a mess at the moment so not sure it's really a British thing and you'd rather Farage retained his oversight role as an MEP?

Populism is on the rise across Europe Sails, I agree, which is why it is safer to have oversight by a central essentially conservative with a small "c" body.  A Europe breaking up into autonomous nations with nationalist populism growing is a dark place nobody should wish to return to

I think it was sheer complacency (to cookie). 

Re farage as an MEP, all he did was draw a salary, claim expenses, and make the odd drunk rant in the chamber, asfaik.

The problem the remain campaign had is that it did not every try to sell the EU as anything other than a necessary evil.  It made no attempt to sell what an incredible success story it has been and how it  has benefited the UK enormously since the bad old days of us being the sick man of europe.   A grudging acceptance of the EU rather than a positive embracement of it had become too deeply ingrained into British politicians of all stripes (with a couple of exceptions) including remainers.  We don't know what we've got until its gone.

Kimmy that was rather my point re. Farage.

Also why didn't the Remain campaign immediately switch to promoting the benefits of EFTA/EEA membership post-ref? All I've seen is a load of fearmongering but with no real solution.

Probably because the only benefit of EFTA/EEA would be that we could technically say we had complied with the electorate's wish to leave the EU, but without actually having to leave in any meaningful sense.

Baaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahhaa

some attempts to justify remain are sooooooo lame

Penelope - which makes it the perfect compromise for Remain to get behind. But no, that would be too sensible.

It's not a compromise though, is it? And leavers know it. It's so obvious that it's not even really worth making the argument.

Even now the Brexiters are screaming betrayal, even as Theresa May proudly announces that free movement will end. I thought that was what you wanted, fooktards?

Free movement was undoubtedly part of it, but its lazy (and incorrect) to assume that was the primary reason for voting leave

Perhaps we should have a referendum about that then. If Theresa May finds out that she's drawn her red lines in the wrong places, she might find it easier to get a deal that satisfies more people.

The primary reason for voting leave (save for few right wingers who want to turn us into an off shore tax haven and a few left wingers who want to turn is into a socialist republic) was a fingers up to the establishment and a vague  dislike of foreigners (whether that be immigrants or eurocrats) and a feeling that somehow everything must be their fault.  It is pointless to try to divine any more coherent reasoning

I think the immigration argument got a boost with the referendum only 5 months after the New Years Eve attacks in Germany. Fear of what will happen when Germany gives the migrant hordes EU residence. A legitimate concern IMO.