5000 jobs to go at Jaguar Landrover

Thanks headbangers

Jaguar make absolutely cracking cars.   Just fabulous to drive. 

Confirmed today. 

Paging Patrick Minford to the factory

And bring Liam Fox with you

A few people would like a word.

Of course you know this isn't really to do with Brexit, but you weren't going to say that, were you?

2 years after the ref, any strategic decision like this is to do with Brexit 

Some companies like to manage their press releases for marketing and image management purposes Fred.

It's a thing.

The golf club constituency won't buy a Tata JLR vehicle when it's no longer British.

I'm not sure who will.



And they're "considering adding a second model".

Why do you think they would make announcements that might negatively affect their sales?

They built it.  They tested it.  Now it's up and running and they've ironed out the kinks they're ready to close the UK factory and transfer production.

It's how grown-ups manage projects.

Don't be daft everything is to do with Brexit...

...even when the bulk of the job losses have arisen because of the downturn in the Chinese market and the movement away from diesel.

So not to do with slowdown in Chinese demand (well reported everywhere) and waning popularity for diesel, which powers most of their vehicles. No, just ignore all that and blame Brexit. Much easier.

Company spends massive amount moving production from the UK to rEU and announces closure of UK factory during Brexit process.

Nothing to do with Brexit.


Try looking at what they do as well as listening to what they say.  You might find it helpful.

It's a $1.6bn investment using state of the art tech and the first factory in Europe to use certain tech.

Does that sound like a company that's worried about its capital?  It's the perfect time to get out of the UK, retool with up-to-date tech and dump the lines that made the diesel models that are on the way out.

And they can call sales downturn as an excuse to do it.

I wonder what arrangements they've made for redundancy payments.  If the UK factory is owned by a UK based subsidiary, can they close it on economic grounds and avoid redundancy payments altogether?  You can hardly ask for money from a company that doesn't have any.  Anyone Employment bods know about this stuff?

Bloop I know you're only teasing, but you have a point...

...in there last few months there has been a 50% fall in Chinese sales (Brexit) and 90% of Landrovers are diesel which nobody wants (Brexit).

I'm not teasing Fluffy.  I mean it. 

They're using the situation to their advantage so they can move and upgrade production with little or no reputational damage.

They won't be the only ones.

If they this was thought a long term problem they wouldn't be investing $1.6bn and there's no way the banks would be lending it to them.

Just look at JLR's own take on these issues:-

For example - strategy section of JLR Annual Report 2016 (released in 2017):-


Then compare it with what they say reporting on 2017:


And on 2018:


Brexit is not the big thing.  Like all car companies they are caught in a perfect storm.  Britain is a good location for manufacturing if it were not for Brexit.  


Nothing about the job losses at Ford caused by closing down production in Bordeaux and Saarlouis? Bit harder to tag Brexit with those, I suppose.

It is pretty simple maths re a market of 60m vs 500m or whatever and the trade tarrifs for UK sales will be no doubt ameliorated by the wage savings.  will Uk still buy the cars - yes for the golf brigade imo.  am sure people who actually need off rd ditched them years ago (defenders aside).

i wonder why the plant wasnt offshored to the east years ago tbh - presumably HM gave tax advantages and the period for than has run out

They say everything is fine until the morning they hand out the redundancy notices.  Y'all should know that.

Are their other problems in the car industry.  Of course.  But if you think Brexit isn't a factor in this decision you're crazy.

Fluffy, if you would just attempt not to swallow unquestioningly the Brexiter propaganda, how many cars do you think are made by JLR in the UK that are exported to China?

Alternatively, where do you think most of JLR’s China car sales are manufactured?

once you’ve worked that out, then ask yourself, are job cuts in the U.K. likely to be predominantly due to a fall in sales in China?

Jaguar Land Rover boss Ralf Speth on the risks caused by Brexit.

Brexit bleakness:

JLR boss Ralp Speth tells BBC company's "liquidity" is at risk in no deal.

"If I miss one part cannot produce one car and that means a stoppage of about 1 day I miss about 80m to 100m a day...can you imagine how long the liquidity of the company will last?"


Goose is it a fixed term appointment in the 6th form debating society?

The problems are not so much tariffs as potential disruption for the JIT model.  Parts will cross the channel several times before they are ready to for final assembly.  There are an awful lot of parts in a car.  They need to arrive at a predictable time within a window of a couple of hours.  Too early and there's nowhere to put them.  Too late and they have to stop the line.

When all countries in the supply chain are operating within the single market this works.  Once the UK is outside the arrival times are unpredictable.  No-one has any idea what it's going to be like.  A few days like that can cause huge problems and massive expense.

Companies are avoiding saying anything negative about Brexit because they're scared of a backlash - boycotts, vandalism at premises, abusive communications, even attacks on staff - but the effects are potentially catastrophic.  So just like the banks they're quietly moving work out of the UK and keeping it as quiet as possible or justifying it without using the B word.

Brexit isn't always the only factor but it definitely adds weight to any arguments in favour of moving.

The fact these basic facts need explaining to lawyers tells you all you need to know about the level of ignorance common today.

True, but in there defence I doubt many of these guys deal with the nuts and bolts (sorry) of manufacturing.

The even sadder thing is that it's not just lawyers but MPs, MEPs and cabinet ministers don't understand this.  They're like teenagers who think their dirty clothes put themselves in the laundry basket, which washes them, dries them and spits the out into draws, shelves and cupboards ready-ironed.

Any lawyer who’s acted on a commercial or corporate transaction within the last 15 years with any sort of international angle, and tbh even those that don’t have those angles, should understand supply chains and just in time stuff. Maybe the general level of ignorance on here is even higher than it usually appears to be. 

And totally about the MPs, completely fvcking ignorant pig fvckers. 

They're in for a fucking massive shock when they leave home (aka the EU).

One of the reasons the EU has always so sanguine about no deal (they haven't wanted it but they've never been scared by it) is that they know a lot of UK business would sooner or later have to migrate.  Mad as they now know us to be, I bet they still can't believe that we're actually driving our most successful businesses away - and in just about every sector you can think of.

And they’ve been proven right already.

The last 2.5 years’ economic data have demonstrated that Brexit’s negative impacts are almost exclusively hitting Britain. Parts of the EU (e.g. Ireland) have been hit a bit, but nowhere near as badly as the U.K. and overall the EU seems to be able to absorb and make up for the negative consequences.

Did you know there are well-established farming businesses in Kent, Norfolk and Suffolk who are buying property in Poland, Slovakia and similar countries so that they can have a sure and stable labour force and barrier free access for their produce.  They're going to import to the UK.

The NFU are trying to point this out without saying "what the fuck have y'all done" because they don't want a backlash.

It's not in a great position either but their problems are part of a global economic slowdown rather and their bounceback, while likely delayed, has not been cancelled.

Better engineers in the Czech Republic and Slovakia anyway. For those who drive 911s, the flat six engine design was nicked by Porsche from Tatra.

“It's not in a great position either but their problems are part of a global economic slowdown...”

I may have missed it, but when was the U.K. removed from Earth...

...the second part of your post is gobbledygook. Have you been drinking?

Try to read properly, Goose. No-one’s saying that the Eurozone or the EU is powering ahead.

The economic data have suggested to date that the impact of Brexit will be minimal on the EU and the majority of negative consequences will be localised on the U.K.

Totally unconnected to Germany’s recent recession.

OK but your post was about how badly the UK is doing and how Europe is absorbing negative consequences. It's a bit of a weird statement in the context of Germany being in recession and the UK not.

That's before considering your statement that the majority of negative consequences of Brexit will be localised in the U.K., which is clearly bollox.

OK but your post was about how badly the UK is doing and how Europe is absorbing negative consequences. It's a bit of a weird statement in the context of Germany being in recession and the UK not.

Not really. It is perfectly obvious and logical to point out that while Germany’s economy is performing poorly if economists are saying that is unrelated to Brexit then it is unrelated to Brexit and the negative effects economists are saying Brexit has had on the U.K. (even if overall its economy is doing better). Brexit is just one thing hitting the economy.

Don’t know why you think, contrary to pretty much every other commentator, that Brexit is causing Germany’s recent economic issues but I am happy to entertain that if you can support it.

That's before considering your statement that the majority of negative consequences of Brexit will be localised in the U.K., which is clearly bollox.

I’m going to assume your change to future tense was an accidental misquoting rather than deliberate.

With the gr7est possible respect, that’s what experts are saying. It’s persuasive because they’re talking about the past 2.5 years (see my post) rather than finger in the wind economic predictions. I’m going to go with them on this one rather than Mr Goose from the internet who has a history of misunderstanding economics. 

Erm, no clearly I am not saying Brexit is causing Germany's recession. What?

Brexit means Brexit 

What part of that do you not understand? 


"Say not the struggle nought availeth, 

And not by eastern windows only, 

When daylight comes, comes in the light, 

 But westward, look, the land is bright."



Any major manufacturer with selling into the EU and obtaining parts from the EU is going to want to be in a country with frictionless trade with the EU - it is blindingly bloody obvious.  Unless we stay in the single market or have arrangements that are equivalent we will lose our automotive industry and many others beside in the next decade or two.  We no longer have a native car industry and the American and Asian companies will obviously prefer to be inside and not outside the major market for its factories.

That is all well and good, but 3 dux wants a blue passport and to be able to sing  ‘Land of hope and glory’ very loudly - surely you must understand that many thousands of people out of work is a price worth paying for that?

Agreed Guy but the Landrover move was not a product of Brexit but a move related to global expansion generally...

”Nitra, Slovakia represents the start of a new era in manufacturing for Jaguar Land Rover. It is the latest milestone in our long-term globalisation programme and the culmination of four years planning...”

The CEO confirms it was in the planning back in 2014.

We’ll keep the Green Flag flying.......over our Mini Metro, stranded on the hard shoulder, with only a Miss Marple boxset for company. 

And what did he say about Brexit, fluffy? Specifically about just in time and complex supply chains? Not exactly enthused, was he??

The only upside of Brexit for me will be seeing the faces of those daft Nissan workers in Sunderland I heard being interviewed just before the referendum banging on about how they were voting for brexit because they fed up with all the immigration notwithstanding that there are virtually no immigrants in Sunderland when Nissan inevitably up sticks and leaves Sunderland to rot.

Sadly it will only be a fleeting pleasure - they were duped, they are a little bit xenephobic, but they don't actually deserve to have their future destroyed.


The Goose10 Jan 19 23:30




Erm, no clearly I am not saying Brexit is causing Germany's recession. What?

Ok, well in that case you might want to explain your actual point then, given that you responded, to a post about the economic impact of Brexit to date only being on the U.K. rather than the EU, by saying sarcastically that the eurozone was really powering ahead (and then picking only Germany).

Or you could desperately backtrack and deny you were making any related point at all and were saying something completely different for no apparent reason?

Granting state aid is only legal within EU rules. Jeremy Corbyn disagrees with that in principle, and is too stupid and lazy to bother getting his head round what the rules are, therefore he prefers to pretend that it is impossible.