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Online Dating with Meh
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.....Meh
Posted - 04 July 2018 23:20
He asked.
I agreed.
He didn't say how tall he was so I assumed short.
Turned out to be 6'3.
Dropped into conversation he had small kids aged 2 and 4.
Moved out of the family home where they were cohabiting 3 months ago after separating last year.
This was his first date in 5 years.

Wasn't expecting that....
Misshoolie
Posted - 04 July 2018 23:23
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Dating when you have children is so hard don't blame him for not mentioning it

As for the rest, he might be so badly on the rebound he could be made of elastic or genuinely unfussed and considers the marriage long dead.
.....Meh
Posted - 04 July 2018 23:29
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Dating when you don't have children is hard too, especially when people don't mention they have kids when it's kind of an important thing to mention.
Spurius Odus
Posted - 05 July 2018 08:14
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Online dating rules are impossible for people who are plunged back in with no experience.

He did mention it. For someone who doesn't understand the weird norms which seem to apply to online dating, it would be weird to suddenly announce that during online chitchat instead of waiting till you've met. Just like it would be weird to suddenly announce that you're 6'3".

Basically the internet is turning people into pricks.
Rhamnousia
Posted - 05 July 2018 08:15
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Was he spurious?!

Rhamnousia
Posted - 05 July 2018 08:17
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Ps I don't believe secret toddlers were smiled upon under the old regime either.
Bloody Nora
Posted - 05 July 2018 08:21
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I once went on five or six dates with a man who failed to mention he had a kid until his sister posted a picture of him with the kid on Facebook and I went, "errr WTF?"

Basically, what Spurious said.
Spurius Odus
Posted - 05 July 2018 08:23
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It was me with sunglasses and a trilby.

How were they secret? They met and he mentioned them.
Rhamnousia
Posted - 05 July 2018 08:29
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Dating people with kids know that (a) that's a deal-breaker for some people and (b) some of those people are looking for a serious relationship and don't want to waste an evening with someone they won't see again.

He should have mentioned as basic info.
Misshoolie
Posted - 05 July 2018 08:30
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What spurious said

If it's an ishoo for you it's best you don't meet again Obvs as the very worst thing is to date someone for a while who suddenly decides that actually this is a deal breaker.

I'm not going to try to convince you to give him a shot, it's probably best you don't. He hasn't done anything wrong tho.
Rhamnousia
Posted - 05 July 2018 08:31
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"haha no big deal or anything but I'm legally and fiscally tied to two other people forever!

And I have hepatitis."
Bloody Nora
Posted - 05 July 2018 08:33
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I didn't realise you could catch hepatitis from having kids.
Rhamnousia
Posted - 05 July 2018 08:35
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I don't think the statement suggested any causation by ofc it is possible to contract both simultaneously.

I actually think I would not judge the guy if it weren't internet dating. The apps introduce an element of false advertising. Perhaps this is inconsistent.
Pinkus
Posted - 05 July 2018 08:51
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Don't know anything about online dating, but how would this be different to meeting someone, exchanging numbers, arranging a date and then during conversation discovering they have kids? Or randomly meeting someone in a bar and then discovering they have kids?

Has online dating given everyone the expectation that they can insert a pre-date stage to filter potential mates on the basis of a list of requirements, rather than whether they're attracted to someone or not? It's interesting that someone failing to meet requirements is deemed to be a waste of time, rather than an opportunity to get to know somebody.

I'm well glad I don't have to do dating any more; it sounds like an absolute nightmare. No wonder people end up perpetually single.
Mr Morningstar
Posted - 05 July 2018 08:53
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People with cervixes! Make sure you post your salary on your Tinder profile! Some people with prostates find that a PWAC who earns more than them is a deal breaker.

Everyone! Make sure you post all ossicle deal breakers on Tinder. This is deffo the way forward. It’s good advice for your CV too btw!
Bloody Nora
Posted - 05 July 2018 08:57
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That's an interesting point, Pinkus.

I think most people (whether they admit to it or not) have a mental list of criteria for a potential partner. Online dating allows you to filter out people who don't meet those criteria in advance, which is probably why people get annoyed when they go on a date with someone who turns out not to have told them something which would have got them filtered out in advance.

Old school dating was never like that. You meet someone in the pub or at a wedding or a party and maybe they don't technically meet all your criteria but you end up falling for them anyway, because life is weird and surprising and illogical.

If you only do online dating you never meet those people.
Hobbes' imaginary friend
Posted - 05 July 2018 09:03
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I don't understand the problem. Meh, if it's that important to you, maybe mention on your profile that those with kids need not apply? Unless you've already done so, in which case carry on.
Silly Billy
Posted - 05 July 2018 09:04
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Rhamnousia
Posted - 05 July 2018 09:05
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or maybe people could just be honest about their objectively challenging circumstances?

it's vanishingly unlikely that someone you meet on Tinder etc is going to like you enough to want to take on all your bedsit weeping time

Rhamnousia
Posted - 05 July 2018 09:06
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NB I am not saying " , men with kids, yuk!" obviously, I am saying "tell people your profound deal immediately"
Misshoolie
Posted - 05 July 2018 09:10
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He was honest.

And what hobbes said. If it's that important, tell people. For all he knew, you could have had kids too. Most people in their mid 30s upwards have been married, had a LTR and kids.
Rhamnousia
Posted - 05 July 2018 09:14
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well I didn't see his chat tbf but it sounds like he lured her out with the promise of fun cocktail time and delivered Donald Trump Junior memes.

I would guess that 50%+ of folk in London in their 30s do not have kids.
Pinkus
Posted - 05 July 2018 09:16
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Wot Hools sed.
Pinkus
Posted - 05 July 2018 09:17
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"50%+ of folk in London in their 30s do not have kids."

Yeh, London does infantilise people tbf.
Bloody Nora
Posted - 05 July 2018 09:19
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So do rising property prices, tbf.
Rhamnousia
Posted - 05 July 2018 09:19
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Pinkus, I know you are in the justifying your choices stage but having kids =/= being a grown up. Sixteen yr olds do it.
Incakenito
Posted - 05 July 2018 09:23
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I think that’s cheeky not to tell someone before the date. They are ultimately not only wasting the other persons time but also their own... why not just make full disclosure prior to the date? Meh had every chance to say okay thanks for being open, let’s still meet up, but he has just made himself look a bit sneaky by not saying it before. It’s not so much the kids or separation but making a decision to get the girl in front of you before revealing the whole scenario, which is pretty fundamental to a relationship.
Rhamnousia
Posted - 05 July 2018 09:27
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exactly what cakers said
Pinkus
Posted - 05 July 2018 09:28
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"Pinkus, I know you are in the justifying your choices stage but having kids =/= being a grown up."

That's actually not what I'm saying and I don't need to justify my choices.

For me being a grown-up involves: standing on your own two feet, owning your choices and your decisions whatever the outcome, knowing yourself and having self-esteem, understanding that you can't control everything, having honest fulfilling relationships with friends and relatives, not undermining other people or creating unnecessary drama. But that's by the by.

London infantilises people by 1. as Anna sez, not allowing them to own property etc.; and 2. giving the illusion of constant choice, constant opportunity and a culture of the 'new' meaning that there's no incentive for people to get on with life.

That's what I was saying.
Rhamnousia
Posted - 05 July 2018 09:32
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everyone needs to justify their choices to themselves, particularly the ones with a lot of negative outcomes.

none of the things that you claim to define adulthood involve having kids so that clearly wasn't what you intended when you said that London infantilises people. London can stop people from making some choices for sure but it also opens up lots of other choices (chiefly imo the opportunity to leave outside the pressure of what is "normal" and oppressive notions of how you ought to want to fill up your days on earth, rather than how you actually do want to spend them).

January Sails
Posted - 05 July 2018 09:36
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If you spend more than a couple of minutes browsing profiles on any dating app you'll find it's basically standard to mention height, any kids you have and particular likes and dislikes.

To be fair if you met someone in a pub the old fashioned way it was pretty obvious how tall they were, whether they smoked and to some extent if they had kids as they may well say something like "it's been nice chatting but I have to as the babysitter is waiting for me" so you'd have that information before deciding whether or not to take their number.
Bloody Nora
Posted - 05 July 2018 09:44
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If you spend more than a couple of minutes browsing profiles on any dating app you'll find it's basically standard to mention height, any kids you have and particular likes and dislikes.

Why height? Seriously, why is it so important to people? Maybe Jayerz is right.

To be fair if you met someone in a pub the old fashioned way it was pretty obvious how tall they were, whether they smoked and to some extent if they had kids as they may well say something like "it's been nice chatting but I have to as the babysitter is waiting for me" so you'd have that information before deciding whether or not to take their number.

You'd think so, wouldn't you? But in practice, no.

If someone is a separated or divorced parent then they would probably be in the pub on a night when the kids are with the other parent, so no need to relieve the babysitter.

That's how I managed to get two months into seeing someone without him feeling the need to mention the fact that he had a sprog.
B•a•M
Posted - 05 July 2018 09:45
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People that have to internet date should be grateful that someone has rescued them from an evening of playing dungeons and dragons with a mannequin and relabeling the containers containing their dry skin flakes
Spurius Odus
Posted - 05 July 2018 09:49
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Point is, as this thread demonstrates, this sort of thing obviously feels normal to people who have internet dated for any length of time but weird to people who haven't.

This guy isn't a dick, he just hasn't learnt the rules. Did you say anything meh or did you leave him to make the same mistake again?
Rhamnousia
Posted - 05 July 2018 09:50
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heh! you have become very catty in old age, bam
Moosheepploptrump
Posted - 05 July 2018 09:51
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This thread has gone OT.

He was 6'3 guys... 6'3!!

Nothing else matters.

*give him a break - he's not a seasoned pro internet dater- probably should have mentioned it, but it's not dishonest and he mentioned it on the date*

6'3!
Rhamnousia
Posted - 05 July 2018 09:52
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I have never internet dated and I don't think it's some sort of dark art
January Sails
Posted - 05 July 2018 09:57
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Anna there will always be one or two oddbods hiding a secret life but most will be quite open and you can glean a reasonable about on information in a matter of minutes.

Anna height is usually mentioned by tall women who don't want to end up with someone they tower over but you'll also find particularly petite ladies mention it so it's not a surprise either. There are some ladies who quote a minimum height for a man so I automatically ignore them.

Spurius you don't need to have spent any length of time internet dating to work this out when most of the profiles you will see of potential dates state "never married, no kids and I'm 5' 6" in case it matters".
.....Meh
Posted - 05 July 2018 10:02
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This thread has morphed into a debate solely about kids. The thrust of my OP last night was that we were having a pleasant evening discussing all sorts of things and then it suddenly got very intense very quickly with the children, the partner who moved out three months ago and the co parenting 3 nights a week. The rest of the evening mainly revolved around discussing his kids, and nurseries, and all that jazz. Nurseries are not sexy. Soz.

As to the prior disclosure, it would have been appreciated. I've contemplated dating someone with a kid before but the timing wasn't right and by the time it was I was 200 miles away so it was no longer practical. I'm not 100% child averse. Having said that, two preschool children is no small undertaking. Also there was other rigidity built in which is probably just because it's so early in the separation.

And yes, he mentioned it. But only because I asked him why he chose the UK rather than the country where he grew up (he's dual nationality with British parents) and that's when he launched into the "well, I've got two children" schpiel.
Spurius Odus
Posted - 05 July 2018 10:02
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What a horrifying picture. That's really the sort of thing people say to encourage other people to spend time with them? It's Orwellian.
Spurius Odus
Posted - 05 July 2018 10:13
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@ sails obv
Obadiah Hakeswill
Posted - 05 July 2018 10:29
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What are we saying? That when internet dating you have to disclose prior to a first date anything that may be considered an issue for the other person: ex-spouse, kids, inability to have kids, job with night shifts/unsociable hours/lots of travel, low-paying job, smoker, disability, serious illness, French, Liverpool supporter and on and on and on...

I think mentioning it on the first date is fair. Over the internet in advance is weird and, while it may seem 'intense', if he waited until later you would be claiming he didn't tell you soon enough.

What was said at the start about internet dating turning people into weirdos.
Obadiah Hakeswill
Posted - 05 July 2018 10:30
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"Has online dating given everyone the expectation that they can insert a pre-date stage to filter potential mates on the basis of a list of requirements, rather than whether they're attracted to someone or not? It's interesting that someone failing to meet requirements is deemed to be a waste of time, rather than an opportunity to get to know somebody."

I'm well glad I don't have to do dating any more; it sounds like an absolute nightmare."

This.
Rhamnousia
Posted - 05 July 2018 10:32
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the reason having kids is different from any of those things is that having kids is the only thing that would involve your prospective partner taking on relationships not with one but two or three new people

unless they don't have any contact, which I guess could raise its own questionmarks
Loopy-Lou
Posted - 05 July 2018 10:38
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glad you're dating again Meh \ /
Montagueh
Posted - 05 July 2018 10:42
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'Kin 'ell - I'm agreeing with Hoolio for the first time since she turned her back on the Tories...wot her, Pinkus and Obs sed, but then I'm a dinosaur who wouldn't have the first idea about internet dating, thank goodness...
January Sails
Posted - 05 July 2018 10:48
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No Obadiah but I find with most women one of the first half dozen questions is whether you've got any kids or ex-wives or the like.

I recently went on four dates with someone and it was the third date before she mentioned she'd only recently broken up with someone and wanted to take things slowly and after the fourth date that she announced she was getting back with her ex. Might have changed my views if I'd known earlier that she was seriously considering getting back together with her ex.
Montagueh
Posted - 05 July 2018 10:53
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Sailo - it was the dates with you that convinced her, m4...
Martian Law
Posted - 05 July 2018 10:57
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How are the aesthetically challenged supposed to find someone in the world of online dating? At least the old fashioned way would allow for personality to shine through.

Asking for a friend
B•a•M
Posted - 05 July 2018 10:57
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Sails, if Monts is scoring open goals against you...


IT'S COMING HOME!
B•a•M
Posted - 05 July 2018 10:57
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Sails, if Monts is scoring open goals against you...


IT'S COMING HOME!
January Sails
Posted - 05 July 2018 11:03
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Monts I'd be inclined to agree but for the fact that she's still in touch with me which leads me to suspect that she's found as most people do that going back to the ex isn't all it's cracked up to be.
B•a•M
Posted - 05 July 2018 11:06
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or you're the reminder to her to be thankful for what she currently has
🚲 🚲 🚲
Posted - 05 July 2018 11:09
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From first date to divorced with 2 kids in just 4 years is pretty impressive.
Montagueh
Posted - 05 July 2018 11:13
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Heh@Bammo - it's the Eastenders effect, innit...no matter how bad your life is, it looks a lot better when set against the alternative...either that or she's aware that every court needs it's jester...
cІubman
Posted - 05 July 2018 11:17
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i would have taken the view that you need to be upfront: either on your profile or on your first date, or if asked via email etc before first date.


Capt Haddock
Posted - 05 July 2018 11:24
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heh @ clergs indignation about declaration re kids.

there are enough mental men and women around on dating websites to take precaution re declaration. The first date / meeting is always about assessing if the other person is a mental basket (or not).
I Ludicrous
Posted - 05 July 2018 11:27
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I think it's wrong if you're dating women in their 30s to not make clear important things such having as kids.

My impression is women are likely to be more focused on settling down and have less time to waste dating people who don't tick the necessary boxes. If she wants her own kids rather than help raise someone else's then it's entirely reasonable for her to disregard men with children. Equally she might h8 kids.
Coracle Lolling
Posted - 05 July 2018 11:30
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If it's such a dealbreaker for you that you won't consider a first date then maybe you should include it in your profile?
.....Meh
Posted - 05 July 2018 11:42
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I wrote a wonderful long post explaining my thought process and managed to lose it. Ugh.
.....Meh
Posted - 05 July 2018 11:47
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In summary, the vast majority of people who are pro dating with kids seem to be the people who already have kids. Allegedly having kids massively changes you, your outlook, the way you think about things etc. I haven't had kids. I have not been changed.

I guess the crux of this entire situation is that if I really really liked a guy it would not be insurmountable.
B•a•M
Posted - 05 July 2018 11:49
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so why are you whinging about it on here then?!

Philip Stuckey
Posted - 05 July 2018 11:51
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Was talking to someone the other day who is a divorcee with kids. She said she discloses prior to first date and about 50% of men simply go radio silent at that point. Not even a polite “not looking for kids”.
.....Meh
Posted - 05 July 2018 11:55
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Because I went on an online date Bam. It's what I do.
Ash89
Posted - 05 July 2018 12:26
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I am so grateful that I am not lookin' for love (in all the wrong places )
cІubman
Posted - 05 July 2018 15:32
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"From first date to divorced with 2 kids in just 4 years is pretty impressive."

even i'm impressed by that
Montagueh
Posted - 05 July 2018 15:41
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clubbers, m5, it doesn't say "twice" anywhere...
Hobbes' imaginary friend
Posted - 05 July 2018 15:44
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A significant proportion of people in their 30s and above have been in long term relationships and/or have kids. If that's the age bracket you're targeting then best to ask rather than assume, surely.
Mr Morningstar
Posted - 05 July 2018 16:03
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Out of interest Meh, does your Tinder profile deal with whether you want children, how many and how soon?
January Sails
Posted - 05 July 2018 16:08
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Morning you'd like the lady whose second message to me on one app was an entire timetable for getting married and having children with our first date as day zero on the timeline.
January Sails
Posted - 05 July 2018 17:01
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If further news four dates lady has agreed to have a drink with me so guess it didn't work out with the ex and I can now be the rebound!
Wild Stallion
Posted - 05 July 2018 18:32
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Why is this even being discussed? He mentioned them on the first date. You either like it or lump it.
Misshoolie
Posted - 05 July 2018 18:34
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Because he "wasted her time"
.....Meh
Posted - 06 July 2018 12:49
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I sent a very polite and pleasant thank you but no thank you with reasons. He sent a very flattering reply in which he said he'd still enjoy meeting up with me whilst I search for Mr Right and said he was free Tuesday or Thursday.

It came across as so very charming that I was almost tempted to give Mr Borderline a second date but I suppose if you remove the veneer he just wants to bang me, right?

Long Schlong Silver
Posted - 06 July 2018 13:26
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No. Definitely not. In fact, it sounds like he is such a great guy that you should definitely take him up on the offer. He's not just trying to get a shag. Honest.