Main Discussion

Freeman on the land
Rate it
0
Report as offensive
TDB
Posted - 06 February 2018 14:00
Has anyone had the misfortune to deal with an LiP who indentified as a Freeman on the Land? More importantly:

a) did the court appoint a litigation friend when they received their 'defence'?; and

b) did you recover your costs for reading what is, in essence, the sort of thing you'd read on the wall of a public toilet but written in blood or sh1t?
old git roundabout
Posted - 06 February 2018 14:01
Report as offensive
Mr Loophole?
The Mens Room
Posted - 06 February 2018 14:30
Report as offensive
Wouldn't you just apply to strike out their 'defence'? The likes of Lowell and Hoist do this all the time.

You'd never recover costs from these lunatics. They usually end up this way after some catastrophic financial event. Even when they do own property they're often in bankruptcy.
Misshoolie
Posted - 06 February 2018 14:51
Report as offensive
Why on earth is your client bothering with proceedings against someone like this? You'll never get a penny
GMT
Posted - 06 February 2018 14:53
Report as offensive
To be fair Hoolie a lot of the time with LiP's (and Freeman on the Land seem to be an extreme version of those - fortunately never had to deal with one) the client will be defending the bvllshvt and/or deranged claims rather than bringing the proceedings.
Parrothead
Posted - 06 February 2018 14:57
Report as offensive
Bring a sheep into the courtroom and invite the Freeman to drive it over the nearest bridge.
Misshoolie
Posted - 06 February 2018 15:03
Report as offensive
Yes but he said when he received their defence. Hence my question
GMT
Posted - 06 February 2018 15:05
Report as offensive
doh, apologies. in which case completely agree, forget about it and throwing good money after bad.
The light wangtastic
Posted - 06 February 2018 15:06
Report as offensive
Are these the chaps (or chapesses) who link the court to a ship somehow? I am sure I read about that on rof once...
Captain Mal
Posted - 06 February 2018 15:08
Report as offensive
What hoolie said.

It does feed their "success stories" but when the Freemen and the slightly milder "have you assigned it right" / generally mentally deranged types think they've won its largely someone like me advising the business that it really isn't worth the hassle and we'd be better served writing off the debt.

I mean proper mortgage stuff then you have to jump through the hoops (and eventually get the sheriffs in to take ownership of the faeces covered shell that they've left behind) but most of the time you're going to waste far more money in court / management time than you're ever going to recover.
Captain Mal
Posted - 06 February 2018 15:10
Report as offensive
wang - proper freemen send letters about not using their state imposed name and insisting on being referred to as "John of the land" or some such bollocks.

You get milder versions who insist that assignment doesn't work / makes your debt unenforceable and that by using magic forms of wording you can require lenders to give you copies of original documents within 10 days or else forfeit their ability to claim the debt.
TDB
Posted - 06 February 2018 15:50
Report as offensive
Sadly I don't have much choice - it is a possession claim where I am a trustee.

She is doing all that 'Joan of the family Smith' bollox, claiming admiralty law and generally talking herself into a wasted costs order.
The Mens Room
Posted - 06 February 2018 16:18
Report as offensive
I've seen enforcement of an Order for Possession (mortgage case) get suspended by a Master while the freeman waited for a return date at the High Court following a nonsense application there. Took ages. Don't know if the courts take a tougher line with LiPs these days.
Buzz.
Posted - 06 February 2018 16:22
Report as offensive
Can this not be dealt with with some big lads and those big dogs which look like a cuboid of muscle with a mouthful of pointy teeth and a leg on each corner?
The light wangtastic
Posted - 06 February 2018 16:27
Report as offensive
Buzz has clearly not learned the lesson from the case of Re: Snatch and the judgement of Ritchie J
Buzz.
Posted - 06 February 2018 16:28
Report as offensive
Wrt wot you were saying above

Many "freemen" beliefs are based on idiosyncratic interpretations of admiralty or maritime law, which the freemen claim governs the commercial world. These beliefs stem from fringe interpretations of various nautical-sounding words, such as ownership, citizenship, dock, or birth (berth) certificate. Freemen refer to the court as a "ship", the court's occupants as "passengers" and may claim that those leaving are "men overboard"

TBF sounds like a giggle.
Lears Fool
Posted - 06 February 2018 16:31
Report as offensive
It sounds like it all started when someone found a -eared copy of the unedited script for Python's meaning of life and took it to heart like the scientologists did with that l ron hubbard novel.
Used Psychology
Posted - 06 February 2018 16:32
Report as offensive
Watch out for:

https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/uksc-2016-0136.html

And send them this. It's not as good as the Canadian one, but still may help.

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2017/285.html
Misshoolie
Posted - 06 February 2018 16:34
Report as offensive
"You get milder versions who insist that assignment doesn't work / makes your debt unenforceable and that by using magic forms of wording you can require lenders to give you copies of original documents within 10 days or else forfeit their ability to claim the debt."

This sounds like the darker corners of the money saving expert forums
3-ducks
Posted - 06 February 2018 16:36
Report as offensive
No, but I'm a Freeman of the Land myself. Can I assist?
The light wangtastic
Posted - 06 February 2018 16:36
Report as offensive
Foolio I do not recall if i ever told you this so will re post. In my old (classic London Victorian terraced) house I got some carpenters (not the singy ones) round to do some warderobe units in the main bedroom on either side of the chimney. you will I am sure have a house full of crap property mags showing such things because you are married and that is an immutable law.

The chippies did a cracking job but when they sent the bill they included a copy of "The Way To Happiness" by the big LRON (ron ron ron he do ron ron).

I read it. It was mainly the ten commandments but with an emphasis on washing oneself.

Hard to argue with tbf...
Captain Mal
Posted - 06 February 2018 16:39
Report as offensive
So that's a long story to say that even the tradesmen think you smell wang?
Captain Mal
Posted - 06 February 2018 16:43
Report as offensive
Do MSE really let that sort of thing stay? I thought they were generally a bit more sensible. I have fond thoughts for Martin as, pre-MSE days when he was first launching his career, he offered to take up our cause when we were having issues over a US car hire place trying to double charge us.

I'm thinking more of the "Get Out of Debt Free" type websites though. Properly loopy nutjobs who will deride anyone pointing out that they're talking boll0cks as being a shill for the debt collectors.
The light wangtastic
Posted - 06 February 2018 16:43
Report as offensive
I don't think LRon did much of the work, tbh. But Rof lacks jokes these days and you have tried jolly hard to do one. Well done.
Buzz.
Posted - 06 February 2018 16:43
Report as offensive
Glad you clarified, would take ages for Karen Carpenter to put up a set of wardrobes. Still, at least she wouldn't have eaten all your biscuits while you were out.
Lydia
Posted - 06 February 2018 17:44
Report as offensive
They do seem to encourage each other in their delusions, but be very careful how you handle litigants in person.
Thereisnotri
Posted - 07 February 2018 16:06
Report as offensive
I've had to deal with a few over the last couple of years running these kinds of arguments (or variations on the theme). Normally acting for utilities of one kind or another where you have to either deal with the landowner to access apparatus, or they bring a claim against you for trespass, so you can't avoid them.

All you can do is try and minimise the nonsense, get an order and get it enforced, or get the claim struck out.

The best examples were of a person who claimed she was not bound by any statute law as nothing after Magna Carta was lawful and that only the common law applied. She also appeared to sign her name in blood ...

Then another one who copyrighted their name and sent a charge statement to the client and then tried to charge them £2,500 for breach of copyright every time they served a notice on them, or wrote to them. Funnily enough that claim for damages was struck out.
The Mens Room
Posted - 07 February 2018 16:30
Report as offensive
Unfortunately courts enable these types with the fee remission system
Third Half
Posted - 07 February 2018 18:35
Report as offensive
I always was led to understand that this LiP crew were 'Freemen OF the Land'

I have come up against a couple of these jokers.

Substantially to do with one's given birth name being a 'legal construct' so that any action against them is void if they disavow their birth name.

They also get upset that flags in courtrooms are not 'official' unless they have frills; otherwise it is a naval flag (admiralty) and so does not convey legal authority in a court on land. Or something [this is probably a North American thing].

The Alberta judgment pretty much takes them apart, I think,

In the UK, that should be fun 'Now, Your Honour if I may refer to the considered judgment of the Queens Bench of Alberta, a copy of which is at tab 98 of the bundle ...

https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.html

It is about 150 pages long.