Follow RoF

For all the breaking news, follow RoF on Twitter and Facebook

         
   
  

Asia-Pacific

Check out this week's top Asia-Pacific news on the Asia Pacific Headline page.
  
  

Main Discussion

Rate it
0
Report as offensive
SumoKing
Posted - 11 May 2017 18:20
I desperately want to see these pleadings "As an international firm of lawyers we naturally decided not to do a cursory internet search's worth of DD which would have revealed what a steaming pile of shitt we were buying, please invest!"
camenbert
Posted - 11 May 2017 18:42
Report as offensive
I wonder what the court fee on that would be....
Lord Judge
Posted - 11 May 2017 19:15
Report as offensive
daddy - £10,000. The 5% fee is capped at £10,000 and anything over £200,000 is the same court fee...

buzz - is Quindell is the only Defendant?
SumoKing
Posted - 11 May 2017 19:52
Report as offensive
directors too surely?
felix1000
Posted - 11 May 2017 20:22
Report as offensive
doubtless they will join others as Part 20 defendants, sell/buy side advisors, I think S&G used Moelis
🐝 buzz
Posted - 11 May 2017 20:36
Report as offensive
I'd expect Rob Terry will be in there at some point. Although given his vehicle invested in something as grubby as Daniel Stewart (unlikely to be confused with Goldman Sachs) I can't imagine he'll be good for the moolah....
camenbert
Posted - 11 May 2017 21:16
Report as offensive
Well, that's dull...
felix1000
Posted - 11 May 2017 21:24
Report as offensive
Buzz, Rob Terry has much previous, you knew that yeah>

Not sure Terry can be named as a defendant, not in a personal capacity anyway.....
🐝 buzz
Posted - 11 May 2017 21:26
Report as offensive
How can you have too much previous to find yourself named as a defendant in civil litigation?
felix1000
Posted - 11 May 2017 21:54
Report as offensive
Buzz, I meant he has previous in selling companies worth zilch for millions. He has done it a few times before. Now, he will not be named as a defendant in a personal capacity of that one can be sire. Unless you think otherwise...
🐝 buzz
Posted - 14 May 2017 13:23
Report as offensive
Recipient of a large chunk of the half billion dividend Quenron paid out when claims already being threatened. Potentially on the hook as a knowing recipient of an unlawful divi and was be still a director at the time it was authorised? In any event, wouldn't want to be RT.
SumoKing
Posted - 14 May 2017 20:55
Report as offensive
Signed off on accounts saying 100 m profit later restated to 60 m loss? 600 m claim you'd take a punt against director wouldn't you
tarquin
Posted - 14 May 2017 21:08
Report as offensive
Accountancy is an art, not a science, Sumo
Lord Judge
Posted - 14 May 2017 21:11
Report as offensive
You would, in most circumstances... Plus any insured entities that you can get on the hook...

It's early days yet... I imagine there will be some procedural wranglings to get through and some disclosure applications that dictate the direction (if any) of the claim.
🐝 buzz
Posted - 15 May 2017 14:22
Report as offensive
More S&G fodder announced today on the ASX

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20170515/pdf/43j86l0hfs24dv.pdf
Moo is voting Lib Dem
Posted - 15 May 2017 14:49
Report as offensive
Buzz (or anyone else) - What is your interpretation of that announcement? Only asking as I have significant dealing with SGMS
felix1000
Posted - 15 May 2017 14:54
Report as offensive
Buzz I agree you wouldn't want to be RT. Are the SFO still investigating? If S&G are suing for the full transaction price , doesn't that suggest what they bought was worth NOTHING AT ALL.

What is interesting , you can bet that Quindell will make an application for security for costs day one as against S&G. Assuming that application is successful, S&G claim is almost certainly likely to fall away , unless they can get a litigation funder AND ATE provider to underwrite the risk.
And none will , you can be sure of that.
felix1000
Posted - 15 May 2017 14:56
Report as offensive
S&G will not be trading in 12 months is my bet.
🐝 buzz
Posted - 15 May 2017 14:58
Report as offensive
Wots SGMS? Is that one of S&Gs brands/lines of biz? I think the only interpretation you can put on it is that the SFO have taken a preliminary view that some of Quindell's regulatory announcements in the past might have been somewhere short of frank.
🐝 buzz
Posted - 15 May 2017 14:59
Report as offensive
Felix, it doesn't require S&G to put up the money though. The people who bought its (secured) debt at 10c in the AUD have deeper pockets.
felix1000
Posted - 15 May 2017 15:05
Report as offensive
Buzzz, I am confused . The people who bought its ( secured) debt as far as I am aware have no locus standi, nor right to commence an action as far as I recall. That will be entirley in the gift of S&G alone, not any third party?

If I am right about that( sketchy memory on details these days!) then don't the claimants have to pay the money in to Court , otherwise they could show a bank statement saying x million in said account, and then spaff the remainder way in the ordinary curse of day to day business?
kc101
Posted - 15 May 2017 15:14
Report as offensive
As far as I recall, at the heart of it Quindell booked WIP as revenue with no regard to the impact of aging of work/files on realisation, and made aggressive growth projections using the same model. It's fairly aggressive accounting even for a PLC and utter madness for a law firm. But not illegal.
Moo is voting Lib Dem
Posted - 15 May 2017 15:21
Report as offensive
Slater Gordon Motor Solutions - - line of bix as you suggested...
felix1000
Posted - 15 May 2017 15:22
Report as offensive
kc, I think you maybe right about that , but the most cursory DD would have revealed this very early doors??
🐝 buzz
Posted - 15 May 2017 15:24
Report as offensive
No Felix but they can put up the dosh by lending it to S&G.
kc101
Posted - 15 May 2017 15:33
Report as offensive
Anyone with an FT subscription would have been able to identify some major concerns quite easily. Maybe the law firm that made the bad deal should sue the law firm doing the DD on the bad deal to buy a legal business. The whole thing gives you a lot of faith in the risk awareness and business acumen of law firms doesn't it.
Brad's big donger
Posted - 15 May 2017 17:11
Report as offensive
Wasn't quindell listed? How much DD do you actually get to do on a public takeover?
🐝 buzz
Posted - 15 May 2017 17:14
Report as offensive
Still is listed. It wasn't a takeover, it was an acquisition of business and assets by S&G from Quindell.
Steven Seagull
Posted - 15 May 2017 17:28
Report as offensive
"Given Quindell (now Watchstone Group plc) has a market cap of £63m, where's that going to come from then? "

what does market cap have to do with assets?
🐝 buzz
Posted - 15 May 2017 17:30
Report as offensive
Well unless the market has completely missed something a company which is good for a £600m claim ought to have a market capitalisation somewhere north of £63m.
felix1000
Posted - 15 May 2017 17:38
Report as offensive
Fair does Buzz, but are they likely to lend them the tens of millions to fund an action which is apparently pleaded on the basis they were induced in the acquistion, based on fraud. That is a high hurdle to breach. I guess they won;t put good money after bad?
🐝 buzz
Posted - 15 May 2017 19:58
Report as offensive
Yes but it's not good money after bad if you bought eg 100m of debt for 10m, hold a first charge, lend a couple of million as security and even only recover 3m of a 600m claim.
felix1000
Posted - 15 May 2017 20:14
Report as offensive
True, but the claim either succeds or fails, and if they dont succeed they have done their money. That said there is an in between scenario, where they are awarded nominal damages, which is still a failure in real terms. The idea what they bought wasn't worth a penny is laughable.

Far better to plead a claim saying what we bought was worth£200MM, and claim the difference arising out of the alleged fraudulent inducement , surely.

And the clam in costs will be millions , and millions , without any effort at all.
🐝 buzz
Posted - 15 May 2017 20:34
Report as offensive
Succeeds, fails or settles....
astarte2
Posted - 15 May 2017 21:31
Report as offensive
Is Balding Buzz claiming to know something about finance now?
🐝 buzz
Posted - 15 May 2017 22:06
Report as offensive
Hi matty. Sorry your other account got banned but heh you are clearly seething about it.
felix1000
Posted - 15 May 2017 22:35
Report as offensive
matty u have never sad what is your area you practice in as a newly made partner. I guess u and buz both being partners have much in common..

One question what are partners meetings like?