Follow RoF

For all the breaking news, follow RoF on Twitter and Facebook

         
   
  

Asia-Pacific

Check out this week's top Asia-Pacific news on the Asia Pacific Headline page.
  
  

Main Discussion

Rate it
0
Report as offensive
cІubman
Posted - 05 May 2017 16:38
i know people who went there. bugger all work
SumoKing
Posted - 05 May 2017 16:38
Report as offensive
Yes but that's more to do with it being oversubscribed by being 1st choice for 90% of the world's vacuous spare khuntflappage looking to bag a duke or better
the short long
Posted - 05 May 2017 16:41
Report as offensive
world's vacuous spare khuntflappage, who have better grades than their cohorts at Nott, Durham etc.
Places like Durham are only over subscribed for degrees like English, History etc, the less popular courses are much easier to get into.
bananaman returns
Posted - 05 May 2017 16:44
Report as offensive
Higher entry than...Durham and Nottingham.

In other news, Norway ranked above Yemen and Syria in peacefulness rankings and Yorkshire comes out top in county most delusional about its attractions rankings.
old git roundabout
Posted - 05 May 2017 16:53
Report as offensive
not sure about St Andrews, but the required a level entry grades for Durham are the same as for Cambridge and Oxford. Notts requires AAB for most courses but makes unconditional offers if you have at least 7 A*s at GCSE.



bananaman returns
Posted - 05 May 2017 17:03
Report as offensive
I thought everywhere now is a minimum AAAAAAAAAAAAAA*************++++++++++++++++ plus being able to write your full name on the form?
Lydia
Posted - 05 May 2017 17:09
Report as offensive
The twins after much agonising chose Bristol over Durham 2 days ago as their first choice (with Nottingham as back up for one and Edinburgh for the other). They did consider St A back last Autumn but did not put it down. They didn't try for Oxbridge and they did get offers from all 5 they applied to (one even had an unconditional from Nottingham).

So they need A*AA and AAB respectively in August.

The one who got the unconditional Notts offer got one B and rest A* and A at GCSE.

I think some universities are upping their grade requirements to force people to make them first choice rather than back up choice as a tactic. I believe L5 felt Exeter had done it for him (otherwise that would have been his back up).
the short long
Posted - 05 May 2017 17:11
Report as offensive
ogr - that isn't the case. Oxford / Cambridge is A*AA whilst there are many courses AT Durham where requirement is AAB.
the short long
Posted - 05 May 2017 17:12
Report as offensive
Lydia - what are your children planning to study
Parsnip
Posted - 05 May 2017 17:13
Report as offensive
lydia - n-one gives a fck about your kids m8
Excession
Posted - 05 May 2017 17:14
Report as offensive
I thought the most oversubsribed Uni in the counyrt (in number terms) was still the University of Manchester?

Really I find all Uni rankings a pointless navel-gazing game.

It has always been Oxbridge then Russell Group then the ex-Polys.

To be honest whenever I hear someone talk about going to a 'top ten Uni' or whatever all I picture in my mind is the massive chip on their shoulder about failing to get into Oxbridge....

old git roundabout
Posted - 05 May 2017 17:15
Report as offensive
Lyds, that mirrors the younger Gitette's experience I think. Notts is using the unconditional offers to entice mainly private school students away from Durham, Bristol, Exeter. I think Brum has started doing the same.

A good course, very slick Open Days, nice Campus and a sparkling new Sports Centre all played a part too. Good luck to your twins
old git roundabout
Posted - 05 May 2017 17:18
Report as offensive
Ignore the League tables - they take into account factors which are questionable and/or not relevant to undergraduates.
Pinkus
Posted - 05 May 2017 17:20
Report as offensive
"The twins after much agonising chose Bristol over Durham"

Having educated knockers is essential.
old git roundabout
Posted - 05 May 2017 17:54
Report as offensive
History, Geog, Classics, English offers at Durham this year are all a*aa - two a*s needed for most sciences.
Massive fuckwit
Posted - 05 May 2017 19:17
Report as offensive
Respectable Oxbridge reject uni in my day. Where the **** Nottingham has come from is beyond me. Is it some sort of rof joke?
Excession
Posted - 05 May 2017 20:29
Report as offensive
'My understanding Bristol has the most applicants per place overall by some margin. Manchester let anyone in.'

As I said Manchester is the most oversubscribed in terms of pure numbers - primarily because it is a huge Uni (biggest one in the country unless you count the Open University) in a very popular city for students.

Bristol may well be the most oversubscribed in terms of applicants per place but it's much smaller - it is something like 32nd biggest. If it had twice as many student numbers it would naturally have to drop its entry requirements.

Also if you want to play the ranking game Bristol is 41st in the current QS World Uni rankings and Manchester 29th - again I assume as Manchester has more than twice as many postgrads to pump out research papers. To simply say one is 'better' than the other because of its undergrad entry requirements shows the average sophistication of a Daily Telegraph reader I'm afraid.

That said obviously the Oxbridge colleges are the hardest to get into in terms of academic grades, way ahead of the others and and all other 'rankings' of Universities are basically bollox.

What 'Bristol' on a CV says to me is (a) private school (b) quite bright (c) tried and failed to get into Oxbridge. Much like Durham to be honest. The London Unis and other decent unis like Nottingham, Manchester, Warwick, Newcastle etc. don't recruit from such a narrow pool in my experience and that's probably a good thing for them.



Massive fuckwit
Posted - 05 May 2017 20:54
Report as offensive
So apart from law it's still a bit duff? I can understand that.

Bristol though was never an Oxbridge drop-out place in my day. Most definitely for those who although not dim were not even potential Oxbridge candidates. Dependable workers without any glimpse of intellectual flair.
Lydia
Posted - 05 May 2017 21:33
Report as offensive
It's hard to compare them all other than Oxbridge is usually best for most thing, although most of us have a fair idea which universities are better than others in a more general way and you can see where people who will be getting Bs etc will be going.

One parent at my son's concert last night said their boy was going to UCL (if he gets the grades but had been rejected by Durham). We met out of the blue tonight a mother of a boy the twins were at school with 6 years ago and her son was rejected by MIT for computer science and giong to King's if he gets the grades.

If you look at where employers who fight for graduates and pay reasonably high salaries recruit from that is a reasonable indicator (although that then favours places with a very large number of under graduates as obviously there are more of them) as well as which are the hardest to get into.

I would have been happy with both twins at Durham or one there and one at Bristol. Both at Bristol is logistically easier (and remember I am from the NE so had decades of commuting up there - usually in an old car which broke down mid way whilst 3 under 5s were vomiting or screaming in the back).

Subjects? A*AA Geography. AAB Ancient History. Obviously the latter twin has a much better chance. So might end up with one at Bristol and one at Nottingham which would be fine too. It all works out okay in the end.

I think 17% of maths A levels are A*s but only something like 5% of some other arts subjects. It is a bit unfair to say no one at Bristol has any glimpse of intellectual flair.

Ex, my twins didn't try Oxbridge. Every boy who tried in their schoolm failed to get in this year.

Time will tell if they would have been better picking Durham.

Anyway next stage is sitting the A levels. My sister has twins sitting GCSEs. Lots of exam in this family at present.

Just as important if finding a career for L3 ten years on from when he probably should have picked one.
Excession
Posted - 05 May 2017 22:12
Report as offensive
Durham has 1 nightclub if it's lucky and the locals really hate the students.

Brizzle is a much more happening city generally and if you like it there are even graduate jobs there.

In terms of academic reputation and the sorts of undergrads they attract, they seem pretty similar to me.



Lydia
Posted - 05 May 2017 22:26
Report as offensive
The school certainly thought the boys might prefer Durham because it's quiet. My father and the children's cousin went to Durham and I am from the NE so it is not as if we don't know it but I think Bristol will be fine for them.

A*AA - yes (Durham and Bristol) that's what L5 needs to get and he might not, A* is quite hard to get. They both got AAAA in AS last year but that might have just been a fluke but may be why they each got 5 offers. Exeter wanted AAA from him so he picked AAB (Nottingham as back up).

They will be fine wherever. We called them the happy babies when they were little (as they always were smiling) and they have remained pretty much the same unlike many teenagers.
smugly unstable
Posted - 05 May 2017 22:40
Report as offensive
Heh @ this thread.

Aren't you all a bit too old and qualified to care about university rankings?
Pinkus
Posted - 05 May 2017 22:43
Report as offensive
Blimey, do people actually look at universities like Durham, Manchester and Bristol and wonder which is 'letter' academically? They're all the same. Presumably the choice is merely where you want to live for 3 years. An employer isn't going to care (unless they have some bizarre attachment to one university, which would be really weird given they spent 3 years there when they were barely an adult to get a qualification).
Likes to eat cheeseburgers
Posted - 05 May 2017 22:52
Report as offensive
Junior cheeseburger is at Cambridge.

It is a great city. Decent uni too.
Lydia
Posted - 06 May 2017 00:05
Report as offensive
Cambridge is indeed very good.

People have children - hence a bit involved in where they might go. I don't think most of us sit here studying university rankings for the sake of it.

Pinkus, well you have to pick 5 for the form, don't you so an element of consideration has to go into it. The twins' Durham/Bristol choice was difficult because of exactly that - not much difference in how they are regarded. Anyway they've made the choice this week and that's done. Just need to pass the exams next. And some people make really bad choics - a friend of mine's daughter, best results in her comprehensive went off to an ex poly. She had always wanted to be a lawyer. Her silly father and school didn't tell her the ex poly where all her friends was going might not be the place where law firms recruit from. Mind you anyone can find this out in about 5 minutes on google so if a teenager isn't able to find that out then perhaps we don't want them in law anyway.....
Pinkus
Posted - 06 May 2017 00:27
Report as offensive
Haven't got a scooby how the university system works. Had a job lined up on the railways, got far better than expected exam results and was advised by the school not to pass up the opportunity to go to university, so went through post-result clearing.

Wish I'd taken the job on the railways, to be honest. Could be driving a train 4 days a week by now. Being a solicitor is well boring. Uni was fun, though.

My Mrs went to Bristol. Her experience was the attendees were all private school nobs, the support was apalling and the resources non-existent. Get the feeling she had a particularly crappy experience in a particularly crappy department (English Lit) though.
smugly unstable
Posted - 06 May 2017 00:37
Report as offensive
Not everything is boring. Find a job you actually like.
Pinkus
Posted - 06 May 2017 01:01
Report as offensive
Fair point. I earn more than both my parents put together and more than any of my friends. With the Mrs' wage I suspect our household income is in the top couple of percent in the country. No doubt that would have been unachievable without my degree. But the old man is a train driver and is happy as Larry and is retiring next year at the age of 56. He and the old gal have been married 35 years, still flirtatiously in love and are utterly relaxed. Both train driver and lawyer are undoubtedly tedious creative voids, but so far as I can tell success lies not in how much you can earn but how happy and relaxed your life can be.

For me the benefit of university wasn't in the qualification, per se. I met people from all over the world, learned a lot of interesting shizzle, met some extremely interesting people and was exposed to an awful lot of viewpoints, music, culture, drugs, women and other experiences that I wouldn't otherwise have had. I entered university reading the Sun, listening to Oasis and interested only in football (although I could play the piano, I guess). I left a completely different person. It was an astonishing experience.

The point, I guess, is that the qualification merely allowed me to get a better paid job, but being surrounded by smart, interesting, opinionated, beautiful, fun people completely changed my view on life. Why people would give that much of a stuff about whether one well respected academic institution is better than another well respected academic institution is beyond me. Presumably a 2.1 from a RG or better university is all employees care about. So the choice must come down to where you think you'd develop best as a person.

Pinkus
Posted - 06 May 2017 05:28
Report as offensive
You not enjoy the law degree? I thought academic law was super interesting. Bit of politics. Bit of economics. Bit of history. A whole load of social policy. And all that reading of journals and law reports. It felt like a genuinely academic pursuit. And different from any of the A Levels, too. It was nice to there being a full stop to the nonsense of English Lit or the academic strictures of Music and doing something totally new.

Remember, mate, outcomes of tests for 'happiness' worldwide repeatedly find that social status, wealth, physical attractiveness, size of dwelling and quality of job make limited difference to peoples' happiness. Far greater factors are family, community, sense of moral purpose (kids, community support etc.), close friends, support network and requited love. A person's happiness isn't largely influenced by money, and a person's worth is certainly not defined by what they earn, what job they do or where they went to university.

Stay grounded, dude.

Excession
Posted - 06 May 2017 17:36
Report as offensive
"Manchester like perhaps Leeds is for those applying to RG Unis very much a last choice. If you were to walk in the street in any town or city and ask 500 A level students which they prefer, I imagine 80% would say Bristol?"

If you asked 500 privately schooled A level students or those from grammars in Kent (which may as well be private from the intake profile) then perhaps...but not if you asked 500 normal A level students countrywide.

Many people don't want the expense and hassle of living in London or Bristol and a lot of A level students don't want to be surrounded by the sorts of often overly-entitled private schoolkids who still want to pretend that they are still at a minor public school that frequent places like Bristol and Durham. I'd be astonished if there aren't more students making first choice applications to Manchester than to Bristol in pure number terms (especially as Bristol is historically seen a second choice pick for those who don't get into Oxbridge).

After Bristol/Durham it then used to be places like Exeter/York, one of the 'Rah' London unis or St Andrews/Edinburgh for those types of students.

Looking at the latest numbers I can find (in 2012) about 35k applied to Bristol and 56k to Manchester, but I can't find the numbers for how many of each were first choices.

I know a guy who was a law lecturer at Bristol recently (married to a good friend). His view of the law students there as a cohort was pretty damning. One of the reasons he moved to a more normal redbrick was to get away from them.



3-ducks
Posted - 06 May 2017 18:34
Report as offensive
When I was applying in the mid-90s, St Andrew's was considered much better than Nottingham (average) and Durham (full of rahs). Then shortly afterwards Notts suddenly became massively fashionable, and St Andrew's lost a lot of its serious prestige (probably thanks to Wills'n'Kate).
3-ducks
Posted - 06 May 2017 18:35
Report as offensive
From memory St Andrew's asked for ABB/BBB which was a lot in those days. Notts was more like BCC.
Lydia
Posted - 06 May 2017 21:49
Report as offensive
There seems to be a lot of people assuming things about children from private schools like my sons' school which are simply not so. Lots of boys will live at home and go to universities in London for a start. One just started a job in GAP at £50 a day to start saving to fund university (only his mother works and they don't have any savings and nor do his older sisters). 60 or 70% of the school is non white and plenty of the boys are only at that school because their parents work so hard and put education above everything else. I as people know am a single mother of five. This idea that we have some kind of privileged entitled snowflake kind of child with low grades who is being parachuted into a good university is not correct.

Asd I said the twins got AAAA in their AS exams. I hope L5 can get his A*AA for Bristol. You can't make up ro fake these results. no one is sitting there in the exam hall feeding them the answers. They are working hard like the children at local comprehensives, state grammars and all the rest of the local schools.

Bristol above most of the other universities has its system where if you are in one of the scholls in the country which are the bottom 40% you can get a grade or two grades lower than if you are a top 60% school (that applies to state grammars, private schools and comps equally). So my sons and their friends are penalised because they have parents who work hard and scrimp and save to pay fees whereas had we picked a local sink comprehensive and spent our money on cocaine the children just need the lower grades for Bristol. One of their friends is going to Birmingham City (he got an unconditional offer).

I adored law. I enjoy reading cases and studying it 365 days a year as much now at age 55 as I did when I started my law degree at 17. As my children tend not to take my advice (people on here assume they are obedient clones but they certainly aren't) none of them is or will read law but that's a pity. it's a very interesting and good degree.

Interesting point - those starting this Autumn will graduate in 2020 when the new SQE exam starts so will those doing a law degree including the SQE part 1 as part of the degree and surely it is far too soon for the SRA to say the SQE starts in 2020 when it will affect those starting law degrees this Autumn? Surely you need at least 5 years' notice to plan for SQE not just 3?
Keef_
Posted - 06 May 2017 22:15
Report as offensive
Haven't read the thread, but St Andrews is better than Notts. They're all better than Notts.

Durham and UCL more of a level playing field.
Excession
Posted - 07 May 2017 01:45
Report as offensive
'Bristol above most of the other universities has its system where if you are in one of the scholls in the country which are the bottom 40% you can get a grade or two grades lower than if you are a top 60% school (that applies to state grammars, private schools and comps equally). So my sons and their friends are penalised because they have parents who work hard and scrimp and save to pay fees whereas had we picked a local sink comprehensive and spent our money on cocaine the children just need the lower grades for Bristol'

What are you drivelling on about Lyds?
The reason that it's rational make a grade or two lower offers to students who haven't been to private schools is that a candidate who has to take A levels at a school with a much worse intake and less money (i.e. the local sink comp you are so derisive of) is much more likely to be self-reliant and not have been drilled to within an inch of their life in A level exam technique. The capacity for self-reliance and general intellectual ability may well be better than that of the private school kid.

The job of a university admissions tutor is not, contrary to what so many Mail and Telegraph readers believe, is not to 'reward A level grades' but to select the people who are likely to add the most to the course and university and to end up with the best outcomes. There is plenty of academic evidence suggesting that a pupil from your sink comp who has the same grades as precious Oliver from [insert name of random grammar or private school here] will outperform him by the end of the course.

It's common sense. If you perform as well under a handicap, you are bound to pull ahead when that handicap is removed. Similarly if you are only a little bit behind despite the handicap, you are very likely to at least catch up once it's gone...

Time after time looking at CVs (and I have ploughed through thousands over the past 15 years) you see the downward arc of those who have been spoonfed at private schools as they hit University. I prefer to see an upward arc. If someone has gone to the best private school in the region and comes out of Uni with the effectively the same grades as someone who went to the local comp, of course I'm going to prefer the person from the comp if it's a question of who makes the cut...
Lydia
Posted - 07 May 2017 07:55
Report as offensive
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/top-university-lowers-entry-grades-for-state-sch ool-students-bwf7vlkvg

It's a bit of a crude instrument. Should we give the twins an advantage as they are from a single parent family or because they are boys not girls?

Would you give me an advantage on entry from a school in the NE where most people did not go to university with the best exam results in the school?

Should we be picking schools in the worst 40%? Some of the twins' friends (two I can think of) have gone from a fee paying private school to inner London comps for A levels by the way. I don't think it's deliberately to make university entrance easier but it's an interesting path.
Terence Brent D'arby
Posted - 07 May 2017 10:56
Report as offensive
You can't do real law at St Andrews can you?

Also lol @ the notion that a glorified finishing school on the North Sea coast is in anyway 'better' than ucl
Lydia
Posted - 07 May 2017 16:42
Report as offensive
I thought the studies were exposed as fake news (that state school pupils did better than private school pupils at university) twisted to suit political agendas.
http://www.politeia.co.uk/university-statistics-no-substitute-for-an-education-by-jo hn-marenbon/

All studies show private school pupils do better in life, not the converse.

The Bristol contextual offers I believe just look at whether your school is on the list of the 40% worse ones, not whether your parents earn £100m a year or anything else so are a fairly blunt instrument.
Excession
Posted - 07 May 2017 18:36
Report as offensive
'All studies show private school pupils do better in life, not the converse.'

LOL. Not sure any reputable academic study would purport to declare who does 'better in life'

Anyway, I thought the answer to what is best is life is 'to drive your enemies before you and hear the air rent with the lamentation of their women' ?

If you mean by 'doing better' making more money than kids who didn't go to such schools, well yes. It's pretty obvious that kids from families who can afford £20k a year out of taxed income for each child (ie the wealthier ones) will tend to get higher paying jobs/have more money throughout life. But that is hardly surprising and could be for a fkton of factors unrelated to the actual education they received at school.

I'd be more interested in looking at their psychological stability, emotional intelligence, divorce and depression rates etc.

And any scientifically literate paper would only compare outcomes for pupils from similar backgrounds, similar family wealth and of similar intelligence of course.

Most middle class people end up with a roof over their head, enough (too much) to eat, a few holidays a year, a couple of cars, 2-3 kids, a couple of pets, a house with a garden and end up both working in more of less full time jobs (with perhaps one part time) that are moderately interesting and better than averagely paid.

All I tend to notice about the shoutier richer ones with Type A personalities (who tend to be more driven and make more money) is that their kids are less happy and feel under huge pressure to live up to Mummy and Daddy's expectations. And it's absolutely worse when one high-achieving parent stops work and becomes a full time helicopter. Those are the kids that either top themselves or go off the rails when they get to Uni. That's not worth 3 skiing holidays a year.


In the Navy
Posted - 08 May 2017 06:44
Report as offensive
You cant do Law at St Andrews full stop - it's never had a law faculty.
old git roundabout
Posted - 08 May 2017 08:48
Report as offensive
talk to Dons and they will privately tell you that with only a few exceptions the students from underperforming schools who come in with 3 Bs usually struggle by comparison with those students with As. They are just not that able.

The pendulum will eventually swing back.
old git roundabout
Posted - 08 May 2017 09:10
Report as offensive
I have - in Scotland.
Saracens1876
Posted - 08 May 2017 10:13
Report as offensive
Now wonder there is an anxiety based mental health crisis amongst young people reading some of the posts on here.
Lydia
Posted - 08 May 2017 10:42
Report as offensive
I stand by my link above. Remember you need to compare state school pupils at the same universities with private school pupils adn strip out posh comps in rich areas and strip out grammar schools to get a fair comparison. You can't just compare the firsts in knitting from an ex poly by state school pupils with grades reached at Oxbridge by private school pupils.

I have never had a problem with the universities for decades saying here is someone on course for AAB when the whole sixth form gets Cs usually they are head and shoulders above we will let them int. That's fine. The institutionalising with a 2 grade lower requirement for that absolutely vast cohort of children in the bottom 40% (that is lamost half the sixth forms in the land) just seems to go a bit far and be a bit too much of a blunt instrument. Whether the twin Ls will get their grades in the summer we shall see. If they do it is deserved and come through hard work as it would at all schools.

Do I get brownie points with the left wing on RoF for going to Manchester University and coming from the NE?
old git roundabout
Posted - 08 May 2017 12:05
Report as offensive
the fact is that most of the unis being talked about on this thread are much of a muchness. In the end your kids should go where they instinctively feel they will be happiest.
Lydia
Posted - 08 May 2017 12:46
Report as offensive
Which is quite hard to know when you're 18 and have never been to university.....

So if felix saying it is better all our children avoid those listed as where the better grammar schools send people to and instead pick different ones? The twins have a friend who rejected Bristol think and is going to Bath (if he gets the trades) with East Anglia as back up. (He tried and failed to get into Cambridge). Some are picking partly on skin colour grounds - most of their school is Asian and some have said they would prefer say UCL (with the added advantage they can live at home until the arranged marriage I suppose) to somewhere more white just because they are used to being in a majority at school and suddenly to be somewhere where not being white is out of the ordinary might make things a bit harder.
old git roundabout
Posted - 08 May 2017 12:55
Report as offensive
wow, if true that's depressing - you'd have thought they would be keen to have at least 3 years freedom away from their parents before settling down - I suspect they may not be entirely free to choose, especially if they are female?

Saracens1876
Posted - 08 May 2017 14:06
Report as offensive
i agree ogr. just huge parental expectations and pressure being fed down together with school and peer group pressure and the financial burden etc. God forbid you have to resit an exam or fail at anything in your life.
Lydia
Posted - 09 May 2017 19:32
Report as offensive
Does it not depend how many generations have been here in the UK and the culture of the family? The couple across the road from me had an arranged marriage. I am certainly not making this up. By no means all have arranged marriages. I am not making up that not surprisingly some of those boys who are used to a school which is mostly Asian do not suddenly want to be in a majority white university. I know of at least 3 of my sons' friends who have say prefererd Nottingham or Birmingham over Bristol.The one going to Birmingham will live with his aunt who lives up there. The parents behind me at the school concert last week I was talking are glad their son will be going to UCL and live at home. I am not sitting here inventing stories nor is it a big issue. A lady I sing with at another school who is Asian has one daughter living at home at Imperial and a son going to UCL. Also why is it wrong for a family to want to keep their adult child under their influence and part fo the family? I'm not criticising. I live with my 3 adult sons myself.

Yes loads of people marry someone of a different race. When have I said otherwise?
Excession
Posted - 09 May 2017 21:39
Report as offensive
'This is perhaps not the bset marker, but if you look at the top grammars across the country and the top 30 public schools, and see where the majority go to, it wil only be 1, or 2 in each school who end up in Newcastle, Liverpool, or Leeds. Tonnes will be at durham, bristol, LSE,UCL,Oxbridge, Warwick, with the thickies going to scotland (Edinburgh) and Exeter'

Probably not the best marker in the circumstances, no.
From the Telegraph:

LOWEST STATE SCHOOL INTAKE
The University of Oxford 57.4%
The University of St Andrews 58.9%
The University of Bristol 59.4%
The University of Cambridge 63%
University of Durham 63.4%
Imperial College London 64.7%
University College London 65.7%
The University of Edinburgh 67.3%
The University of Exeter 69.1%
The University of Newcastle 70%

Notice how Newcastle is actually relatively posh.
Posher than Warwick and LSE surprisingly.
And LOL @ St. Andrews and Exeter.

This mainly tells you at which Unis the student experience most mirrors private schools ....and so the where the private school kids like to go to....
🐝 buzz
Posted - 09 May 2017 21:52
Report as offensive
What A levels did you do m6?
Colonel Pantyfloofle
Posted - 09 May 2017 22:05
Report as offensive
All those universities, except perhaps Imperial and UCL, have a finishing school elemtent to them.

Warwick and LSE are distinctly anti-finishing-school. I remember what a shock it was to go from Warwick to Cambridge and discover that there were things called drinking societies. If you had tried to start one at Warwick I think you might have had your face smashed in.
old git roundabout
Posted - 10 May 2017 08:01
Report as offensive
Newcastle is a very popular choice for public school types. Nice Uni, by the look of it.
Battleship Pomegranate
Posted - 10 May 2017 09:16
Report as offensive
What I think many applicants fail to consider sufficiently is the quality and content of the course they are applying for. All this talk about university rankings is a bit pointless - if you can get into Oxbridge, go for it. If you can get into an "old" uni rather than an ex poly, go for it. Beyond that the quality of the course is more important than that of the university.
old git roundabout
Posted - 10 May 2017 09:25
Report as offensive
Agreed Hank. That largely persuaded my gal to choose Notts over Durham Bristol and Exeter.
Legal Alien
Posted - 10 May 2017 09:43
Report as offensive
Looking back I think I would have enjoyed Durham, though I never applied there. Judging from the grads that I have seen coming through over the years it does seem to have more than its fair share of fit posh girls.
old git roundabout
Posted - 10 May 2017 09:48
Report as offensive
LA , you are quite correct.
Lydia
Posted - 10 May 2017 10:31
Report as offensive
"On your own repeated version, the are quite brilliant on a number of levels?"
I would be surprised if anyone found a post of mine saying any of the children was brilliant, lovely though they are. Why would any parent say that about their children? The twins didn't apply for Oxbridge as they didn't think they'd get in. As no boy from their school got in in the end this year they were probably justified in not bothering. (And for the record I have no problems with Asians or any kinds of people. If I did I would not live in one of the most mixed boroughs in the country or send my sons to the school where they go)
Legal Alien
Posted - 10 May 2017 10:37
Report as offensive
Some girl I met recently informed me about the "Durham fashion show" - I searched online and its basically Victoria's Secret for uni students.
stardust
Posted - 10 May 2017 10:37
Report as offensive
The one thing I think that separates Durham from the others is the collegiate system which I think some people would enjoy - it does give you a sense of belonging which is quite nice, actually. I still feel more associated with my college than the uni as a whole, which I think is telling. But at the end of the day, it's all much of a muchness and your uni career is what you make of it. Once you have left, there's thousands of others just like you - it's the extra curricular stuff and your personality and skills which will hopefully provide opportunities for you. And after a few years no one really cares that much, your work experience speaks louder.
Lydia
Posted - 12 May 2017 10:56
Report as offensive
Yes, I think that was an issue for the twins to consider and their school suggested it might be better for that reason, less large, more inclusive, like a boarding house at a school. If their choce means they have lost that and the amost naked underwear shows of Durham that will be a double blow to them.

I agree it's what you make of it. I was asking one last night if they do get the grades both to go to Bristol will they be at the same hall? As over their choice of university I am totally neutral as to whether they are at the same one or not. They certainly won't be like twins I saw when visiting a school friend when she was at durham. They had the room(s) next to her and had made one the bed room and the other the sitting room, always went out together and even worse always worse identical clothes.
old git roundabout
Posted - 12 May 2017 11:27
Report as offensive
Older Gitette is having a great time at Durham - but after living in college in the first year she hardly ever even goes to her own college (Hatfield). It's not quite like Oxbridge, mainly because there is no college based teaching, but probably more like it than a Hall of Residence.
stardust
Posted - 12 May 2017 12:27
Report as offensive
Hatfield bar always used to remind me of an airport departure lounge...
old git roundabout
Posted - 16 May 2017 09:05
Report as offensive
The 2018 Guardian League Tables are out today. Durham and Notts on the up.
Lydia
Posted - 16 May 2017 09:28
Report as offensive
It has Nottingham so far ahead of Bristol on that table despite Notts throwing unconditional offers around and lower grade entry requirements. We will have to hope L5 messes up his A levels such that he ends up at his back up choice......
old git roundabout
Posted - 16 May 2017 09:32
Report as offensive
but both are surpassed by Coventry Poly and Lufbra, so I doubt anyone will be too worried!
3-ducks
Posted - 16 May 2017 10:35
Report as offensive
"Some are picking partly on skin colour grounds"

wtf?
Lydia
Posted - 16 May 2017 10:37
Report as offensive
I'm not joking. If you have been at a school which is 80% non white as their is would you really want to take yourself off to a university which is extremely white. Also some teenagers make decisions on all kinds of grounds about universities, really arbitrary. I am not saying the boy was right to use that as one of this grounds but whether you think you will fit in has been studied all over the place including by the Sutton Trust. It is a key issue for some groups of people in the UK, even some teachers in the worst schools will say - XYZ university is not for the likes of you, you won't fit in there (on class more than race grounds).
Wangpain for real ale
Posted - 16 May 2017 10:41
Report as offensive
old git roundabout
Posted - 16 May 2017 10:47
Report as offensive
Lyds, they should apply to Oxbridge - their chances of acceptance have never been better.



Lydia
Posted - 16 May 2017 10:55
Report as offensive
Every boy from their school who applied to Oxbridge this year did not get in (and most of those were not white). That might be an anti private school bias but more likely they just didn't make the grade.

Wang, I noticed. It does not change my view that the twins' decision to reject Durham and choose Bristol is fine if that's their choice. Some of these tables always look a bit dubious to me.

It would be best if the highest paid graduate careers had a table of where they recruit from and what A level grades people got in those jobs.
smugly unstable
Posted - 16 May 2017 10:57
Report as offensive
F**k me, is this thread still going?

You bunch of weirdos.
Wangpain for real ale
Posted - 16 May 2017 10:58
Report as offensive
I agree Lyds - LSE at 15 is ridiculous
3-ducks
Posted - 16 May 2017 15:51
Report as offensive
You don't get more "traditional" than St Andrews, you nonce. It's 15th flipping century.
Third Half
Posted - 16 May 2017 16:03
Report as offensive
Resurrecting this thread, I suspect felix is right. When I look at the Guardian table I think the only (or at least the most important) indicator of consequence is the average mark for students (and my RG uni gets a good deal from the Guardian, but to the extent that I can't take it seriously, myself)

It is a weird obsession about tables. I mean QS apparently considers 17,000 universities world wide, although as far as I can make out it only ranks the top 700 or so. How do you do that? But the US takes it very seriously to the extent that uni returned figures have been the subject of action (It's about lawyers...what do you expect. Unemployed law grads have the nous and time to do so, even if the means are lacking)

I have recently started looking in an idle way at tables, partly because friends kids are coming up to that age (and nephews not far off) Also, although i rarely go to the US or Canada, it is interesting to get a perspective on their unis.

Which raises another point. QS and US News & Reports and others rank law schools worldwide. But in the US law is a grad degree (so it takes 7 years (4+3) to get to take the bar), whereas in other common law jurisdictions it is after 3 or 4 years of a first degree (OK in the UK + 2 years t/c.) How can you really compare those?

Mind you the USNR rankings make amusing reading for anyone outside the US who puts much store in rankings. In my day there were rankings but prestige mainly filtered through the decades I suppose. Perhaps the rankings were intended to counter that.

I have read a few blogs/web things about the experience of law school grads in the US and the GFC hit them pretty bad, even T14. Especially with typical fees for any law degree (undergrad degree + say GBP120K + living expenses.)

In part my interest is because I know a few academics, so that has a bearing, and I have a young relative who has a job lined up at a white shoe NY firm once she graduates - way beyond me though international rankings suggest my old school compares well within T14 which, if you knew me, is so laughable you would actually start to cry in pity.
What I did not know is that, in the US, even if one declares bankruptcy, law school fees (Fed?) are NOT wiped out. WTF?

Meanwhile, over in Canada, no one is permitted to practice law without Canadian law degree and bar.

By contrast, and I am sure you all are capable of swimming in the legal stew but, if you are English & Welsh qualified you perhaps wonder why you have been paying the Law Society trade union fees all these years!

🐝 buzz
Posted - 16 May 2017 16:08
Report as offensive
Law in the US is a technically a grad degree but it's really a second undergrad degree so the comparison doesn't seem that unreasonable.
Lydia
Posted - 16 May 2017 16:22
Report as offensive
So it's 7 years post age 18 in the UK (with non law degree) and 7 ears to take the bar in the US - sounds pretty similar to me particularly if in the US they are immediately qualified once they take that final bar exam.

Whereas after our new 2020 SQE exam you might have a non law degree, 3rd class ex poly, and then been crammed whilst working as a para legal over say a 2 year period so that might bring it down to 5?
3-ducks
Posted - 16 May 2017 17:14
Report as offensive
What absolute rot. Incidentally, you may call me Dux.
3-ducks
Posted - 16 May 2017 17:21
Report as offensive
"know one outside the UK hardly"

The result of an English tertiary education from a lesser red-brick university I assume?
Third Half
Posted - 16 May 2017 18:52
Report as offensive
'Especially with typical fees for any law degree (undergrad degree + say GBP120K + living expenses.)'

My brother. (BSc & BEng then UK Army [long story]) 20 years ago had an US exchange mate doing Harvard Law (with whom we stayed for a short week in Boston). He did a medical degree at University of Texas (7 years?) then apparently decided there was ore money to be made in law so went onto Harvard. Even 20 years ago his uni fees in total must have been perhaps £250k?.

Don't worry about him though. I am sure you do anyway. His father made some ridiculous fortune on the Texas oil fields about 20 years before.
Wangpain for real ale
Posted - 16 May 2017 18:55
Report as offensive
Felix werent you at Bristol for one degree? Note its position n the guardian pole
Third Half
Posted - 16 May 2017 19:22
Report as offensive
Lydia, "..you might have a non law degree, 3rd class ex poly, and then been crammed whilst working as a para legal over say a 2 year period so that might bring it down to 5?'

But law is not really a techie degree like say engineering; let alone medicine.

Who was the last Law Lord to 'reign' without a degree, let alone a law degree? Learn'd on the job, as a school leaver clerk, di'n't he?
Lydia
Posted - 17 May 2017 12:09
Report as offensive
I still use a lot of what I studied on my law degree even 30 years on. My grandfather's brother qualified via the old route around 1920 leaving straight from school to be articled. Actually my biggest concern about the new SQE is it is in 3 years' time, people are starting degrees this Autumn and yet they don't know where they stand. We should have a least 6 years' notice for such a big change.