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stardust
Posted - 20 April 2017 13:48
I hate that dread feeling. It starts on Sunday afternoons, too.

What would you love to do? What sort of work?
Queen E is voting LibDem
Posted - 20 April 2017 13:50
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So get out of it! Life is too short.

What is your dream job?
ReggiePerrin is voting Lib Dem
Posted - 20 April 2017 13:52
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Have you ever worked in-house?

You could try a public sector body. Work/life balance is unlikely to be a huge problem in Lincolnshire Country Council legal dept.
SumoKing
Posted - 20 April 2017 13:52
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Pinkus
Posted - 20 April 2017 13:46

That constant feeling of dread that a sh*tstorm is just around the corner.
_______________________________________________________________________

The great advantage of having had a somewhat eclectic shitstorm laden early career path is that I am fairly confident that I can fix almost any shitstorm before it becomes a full on career ending tsunami of the brown stuff
.....Meh
Posted - 20 April 2017 14:13
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If you can go inhouse, give it a try. Since I moved I no longer get the Sunday fear, I work really normal pleasant hours. Life is good. I have time to do stuff. I caught myself thinking the other night how gutwrenchingly awful it must be to still be in the office... it was maybe 7.30/8pm. I used to be in the office until 9/10 standard.

Or if there's no inhouse comparator switch across into public sector for a bit of a breather. Money isn't fantastic but probably not that much different if you work out your hourly rate...
Likes to eat cheeseburgers
Posted - 20 April 2017 14:25
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I never understood eqt partners etc having piles of cash, but hardly taking any holiday.

Ideally, I reckon you need about 50-60 days off.

3-4 weeks skiing (2 weeks with family and a couple of mates ski weeks)

2 weeks family sailing Greece/Croatia/Caribbean

2-3 weeks Xmas hols

4 x 1 week family (spring , 2 x summer week, 1 x autumn)

A few Fridays off for long weekend city breaks.

So you need to make hay during the other 9 months, working like buggery on your own business which is not just an hourly rate type business. Leisure time is not compatible with working in an office for somebody else.
.....Meh
Posted - 20 April 2017 14:29
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I get just over 50 days if I make full use of flexi days. It's lovely
Brad's big donger
Posted - 20 April 2017 14:29
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Heh at 'long hours' and there being washing up to do.
hoolie is voting lib dem
Posted - 20 April 2017 14:31
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High street is AWFUL. don't. Do literally anything else. It is NOT like being Stephen Fry in Kingdom
Martian Law
Posted - 20 April 2017 14:31
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What Meh said, although more money would be good
#lockuptheorangeclown!
Posted - 20 April 2017 14:41
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It is what it is m2

Work the angles and scope out as many options as possible

You'll get a certain amount of helpful info on here
Saillaw
Posted - 20 April 2017 14:55
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I'm in the middle of the hell that is trying to do two weeks work in one because I'm on holiday next week. I've also been working hard for the last couple of months and I'm starting to remember all the things I hate about being a permanent employee and fighting the urge to walk away and go back to contracting. Hopefully I'll feel a little more cheerful after a week of leisure even though I'll end up working part of it.
Lydia
Posted - 20 April 2017 15:01
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Could you stay at home and your wife work? Plenty of couples do that.
Abbeywell/NSA
Posted - 20 April 2017 15:06
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How do you know his wife doesn't work already Lydia
Stixta
Posted - 20 April 2017 15:19
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Oh do shut up with the totally unhelpful bollocks, Lydia.

Best of luck Pinkus with whatever you decide to do.
camenbert
Posted - 20 April 2017 15:24
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in-house. simples.

Incidentally
"Gotta get out. It's going to kill me. And not in a funny way, either. In a really, nasty, break-downy suicide way."

What would be a funny way? Are we talking ironic? (killed by a large pile of documents just after walking out to go on holiday)
or just plain weird? (I dunno, run over by a massive, escaped )

I once looked at a job with Jonathan Palmer leisure. But it was based at Brands, not Cadders. How about a job in a small comm property and agricultural shop in Louth?
(and then I'd come and sleep in your spare room every time I went to play at Cadwell)
🐤🐤🐤 is voting Conservative
Posted - 20 April 2017 15:24
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The trouble is, it's exactly like that, only with added billing pressure because the margins are so ridiculously tight.


hoolie is voting lib dem
Posted - 20 April 2017 14:31
High street is AWFUL. don't. Do literally anything else. It is NOT like being Stephen Fry in Kingdom
Budgie Quay
Posted - 20 April 2017 15:30
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You know law really is a poisonous old profession isn't it? the number of lawyers who feel like this is astonishing. Need to find a new way of doing it.
Siegfreid
Posted - 20 April 2017 15:37
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Erm ... (small writing) ... learn French
camenbert
Posted - 20 April 2017 15:40
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heh!
On another place there is a thread where it was agreed that everybody in IT wants to get out of IT.

I don't think law is that much better or worse than any other profession, we just all go through bad patches.
Osama
Posted - 20 April 2017 15:41
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Law is a con
hoolie is voting lib dem
Posted - 20 April 2017 15:41
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Yes ok good point dux. The clients are menkle but not in a everyone ends up at a sheep dip fair with cider and doffing cap to middle classes kind of way. More in a green ink and ringing the SRA kind of way
Pinkus
Posted - 20 April 2017 16:23
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Chz for the advice all.

I've done High St. and it's no different, really. The working hours are the same, but the pay is worse, the places are awfully run and the clients are more shouty. It's not a solution to get a better work/life balance, it's the same work/life balance but with lower pay.

Heh@Lydia. My Mrs does work and we earn about the same. Not sure she'd be particularly thrilled if I decided to become a stay-at-home layabout. "How was work darling? Before you answer that, let me tell you about this Donald Trump mashup video I saw on YouTube today (on my downtime between playing the piano and masturbating)."

Will look at in-house/public sector. Or simply give up and go and work in Lidl. Or short trip off Coq's balcony. No more of this shite.
Hank is voting Labour
Posted - 20 April 2017 16:27
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The trick is perspective. I worried tremendously as a junior. I have finally learned that 99% of what we worry about does not come to pass and even if it does, we have insurance and it is not the end of the world. People rarely get sacked for mistakes. And even if you do get sacked for a mistake - that is not the end of the world anyway - get another job, start another career.

As for hours, it is perfectly possible, if you are not determined to make mega bucks, to find plenty of jobs in the law, both private practice and in-house where no more than 40 hours a week is expected or necessary.
hoolie is voting lib dem
Posted - 20 April 2017 16:33
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Pinkus you love Bristol really, come and work here

\ /
Spadea ain't afraid of ya
Posted - 20 April 2017 16:33
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I do 9.30 to 6.30 plus a commute and even that shatters me.
Pinkus
Posted - 20 April 2017 16:38
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[I] Pinkus you love Bristol really, come and work here [/I]

Heh. I love your enthusiasm, Hools, but I really, honestly do not like Bristol at all.

I'll be there Tuesday, sadly. Let me know if you're about and I'll introduce myself over a pint before I get the train home.

sporting_zucchini
Posted - 20 April 2017 16:41
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As Queen E said, get out of law before it eats whatever is still left of your soul.

Life is too short to do what you hate until you retire / die at your desk. There is no reset button.

Bleak, isn't it.

Lydia
Posted - 20 April 2017 16:49
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If you stayed home you could support her career and she might earn double what she does now perhaps? Although I don't agree with putting all your eggs in one basket in a marriage. What about setting up your own law firm from home? I like as do a number of other Rofers. You do what you want when you want to.
hoolie is voting lib dem
Posted - 20 April 2017 16:53
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Just think - instead of being a slave to the 6 minute unit, you too could patrol the bins of the housing estates of greater London.

There. Doesn't seem so bad now does it?
Shami's Chakra botti
Posted - 20 April 2017 16:57
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Pinkus

Good that you have recognised what takes a lot of us a long time to spot - that the working patterns come from within us and are our reaction to the challenge. We decide what "commitment" is and some of us overcook it or have a heightened sense of duty etc such that a lot of sacrifices are made. Change roles and the working patterns come with us. It's deeply ingrained in our personal psychology long before it develops itself in a job context.

Good also that you've noticed that something needs to be done or else it will rot you. I think it takes us all a long time to realise that we aren't just one day going to "win" this battle by telling it to **** off. The moment of enlightenment comes when you realise you have to do something material or else the pressure will win.

I am sure you will be ok as you seem to have self-evaluated and that's the most important step. Courage, mon brave.

Mutters
Pinkus
Posted - 20 April 2017 17:05
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"The moment of enlightenment comes when you realise you have to do something material or else the pressure will win."

Amen.

No more.
Shami's Chakra botti
Posted - 20 April 2017 17:07
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bows, sensei style.
Legallynotblonde
Posted - 20 April 2017 17:17
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Try in-house first

You won't look back, because there won't be some fecker trying to put a knife in it. Not that I'm bitter!
Shami's Chakra botti
Posted - 20 April 2017 17:20
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mmm

take care with that advice from Legallywossname. Depends where inhouse you go.
Legallynotblonde
Posted - 20 April 2017 17:22
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True dat

Ideally move in-house where there is at least a compliance officer to back you up when the shenanigans get a bit moody.
Spadea ain't afraid of ya
Posted - 20 April 2017 17:34
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LOL, plenty of knives in the back and bullets in the chest round these inhouse parts. Career progression often has to be stolen or appropriated so people behave accordingly.
Lydia
Posted - 20 April 2017 17:37
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It may also be pschological which is really the mutter point. You take that perfectionism or over work with you wherever you go. If instead you can think okay I've done agood enough job for today. I'll stop and go home and XYZ will have to wait until tomorrow then you probably get more time for sleep, rest, playing with the baby, dusting the living room or whatever.
Shami's Chakra botti
Posted - 20 April 2017 17:48
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pschhhlongological.
qualita oro
Posted - 20 April 2017 17:50
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Any job that makes life the way the OP describes it isn't worth it. If you can't find a comfortable niche after 5-10 years you have to wonder whether you're the problem.
Jon Snow
Posted - 20 April 2017 17:54
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Awwww. Isn't it cute when Hyoo pretends he's got a career?
qualita oro
Posted - 20 April 2017 18:10
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You call your work a career?

LOL
ColonelSanders
Posted - 20 April 2017 18:22
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Doesn't sound manageable Pinkus. Unless you can work out a way to insulate yourself a bit from work / the constant anxiety that comes with it (which suspect is tricky if you give a sh't) then you might want to consider working up a new plan.

In an ideal world you could slow down a bit, start turning away work, leaving stuff to be done till the next day, stop being totally dependable and available. You might find you can spin this approach out for a while.

When faced with a frantic partner with some work that just has to be done, you could try the old: "That's a bit difficult isn't it. I'm not sure how we are going to get that done." Then leave. Sure they will find the next person along the line.
Jon Snow
Posted - 20 April 2017 18:36
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Hyoo my sweet, I could sweep up turds for a living and it would still be more meaningful than your life.
Jon Snow
Posted - 20 April 2017 18:38
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Oh and Pinkus, what they all said about in-house. It's not a rosebed either, but there's a particular brand of headfvckery that you only get in PP.
Coracle Lolling
Posted - 20 April 2017 18:49
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heh!
On another place there is a thread where it was agreed that everybody in IT wants to get out of IT.

I don't think law is that much better or worse than any other profession, we just all go through bad patches.


Nah, law genuinely is that bad.

(At least private practice is).

Get out whilst you can and go in-house or whatever.
CremeCaramel
Posted - 20 April 2017 22:22
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Pinkus - I can completely identity with those feelings, and want to echo what others have said about kudos for recognising them - I didn't realise the impact my last job was having on me until I'd settled in my inhouse job.

I don't get Sunday dread, I feel in control (that's not to say there aren't curve balls but I feel like someone's got my back if things get chaotic), I feel good at my job and proud of what I do, I like working with normal people (non-lawyers).

I even rang Law Care when I was newly qualified and they said it'd be a shame for me to give it all up and I should try inhouse, and I thought it was a cop out or same kittens in a different environment. But I'm so glad I gave it a chance. Definitely take a look. You are then in a better position to assess what other business roles might appeal that you could move into, perhaps in the same business.

Good luck!
Gravitas? What Gravitas?
Posted - 20 April 2017 22:33
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I have to say (never having worked in the city but now instructing a fair few of the fvckers) private practice is a mugs game unless you are getting serious dollar and are happy for your job to be your life (like most successful city lawyers).

Working 14 hour days in the regions for £70K a year with all the bollocks that comes with PP is a waste of time unless you have a niche, you really love the job or are in some way a rainmaker (and hence will be on a lot more than £70K).

But also what mutters said re working patterns. They don't change. You would probably feel the same if you were pulling pints in the with Two Cocks.
Saillaw
Posted - 20 April 2017 22:41
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Partner called me this afternoon and it was apparent within seconds he was going to enquire if I could do something urgent in the next couple of days. Took great pleasure in saying "let me stop you there and say I'm on holiday next week". Few minutes later a colleague came round to ask my thoughts on an urgent task the same partner had just asked him to deal with.

People don't mind if you say no because you're busy from time to time but you don't want a reputation for saying you're always busy regardless.

Personally I found that temping I was more than happy to walk out at 6pm every day and turn work down if I was remotely busy because I didn't need to really worry about the politics of promotion, etc. so finding an alternative environment with fewer demands may well make a difference.
CremeCaramel
Posted - 20 April 2017 23:08
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An actual adult wrote that post! An actual grown up person!

My mind is completely blown at the type of people some posters must be in real life.

I just hope I never get drunk and make the mistake of sleeping with any of you. Shudder.
hoolie is voting lib dem
Posted - 20 April 2017 23:09
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Photocopier jammed again matty?
#lockuptheorangeclown!
Posted - 20 April 2017 23:30
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Tea 2 sugars cheers
CremeCaramel
Posted - 20 April 2017 23:54
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Yes, crazy!
Pontefract
Posted - 21 April 2017 00:17
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It's a scum job. Everyone knows this from week one. The saddest stories are from those who proclaim to love it.
Cofferdam
Posted - 21 April 2017 06:37
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Largely what sumo said at 13.52 early on

Cam:

I don't think law is that much better or worse than any other profession, we just all go through bad patches.

Also that lawyers are more expressive with words and know how to hit the right note. Being a career lawyer doesn't help in realising that other patches of green grass might just be turf also.
Merkz
Posted - 21 April 2017 07:30
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cba to read the whole thread but two things

1. if you are the kind of guy who works long hours you (probably) always will be. i am 7 years out of law working for a conservation charity in a non-legal role. i still work longer hours than pretty much all of my colleagues (and get more done....) but at least it is my choice and i enjoy it

2. it is not THAT hard to get out of the PP rat race but you will almost certainly take a lifestyle hit - you need buy in from spouse (and, i guess, kids old enough to notice)

and as an aside - in my last PP legal role i traded talent plus lack of ambition for 50 days off a year - and usually took 52 - could you negotiate something similar?

best of luck.
Weally Been
Posted - 21 April 2017 08:01
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You sound like a lovely person CEO haha
#lockuptheorangeclown!
Posted - 21 April 2017 08:03
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he can't even make a cup of tea ffs

god help him with delivering the post
Saillaw
Posted - 21 April 2017 08:41
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Thanks for that insight CEO. I've worked in everything from a City silver circle firm through to a firm with just 3 full time solicitors and I can say the pressures have been similar in all of them. In my experience the one factor that makes the difference between finding a job reasonably enjoyable and hating it are the people you work with and whether you trust them to back you up when you need it.
Pinkus
Posted - 21 April 2017 09:11
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"And probably would make sense to evolve your limited talent set to try to get somewhere better rather than accepting defeat to work for your local council for £10 an hour."

Heh@ the idea that practising law requires talent.

On The Strand last night I saw a homeless bloke 'busking' by singing through a traffic cone he'd found. That bloke had more talent, creativity and ingenuity than any lawyer I've ever met.

Navigating the waters of government administration doesn't require talent. Negotiating a contract when you're beholden to the whims of your client doesn't require talent. Mitigating your scrote's sentence doesn't require talent. Talent gives rise to creativity and invention -- it requires freedom and doesn't rely on luck. Nothing in law requires or allows for talent. Anyone who is in this profession because they think it makes them clever, special, interesting or for prestige is deluded. If you think law 'is interesting or fun, there's something wrong with you. It's boring. Very, very boring. All of it from litigation to commercial doc-blozzing. It's a business. A business that's a tertiary business to real business. It just happens to be a business that pays well for that limited skill set an awful lot of people possess.
#lockuptheorangeclown!
Posted - 21 April 2017 09:16
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i agree with all of that m4 - especially about the guy with the cone - but nobody owes you a living. the law is full of dull jobsworths - look at rof - who flourish by sucking it up. like i said, work out what you need, play the angles, don't listen to the h8rz
Saillaw
Posted - 21 April 2017 09:20
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At least in this job you get to have the odd chuckle at some of the more bizarre requests you get.
Jethro might vote Labour now
Posted - 21 April 2017 09:23
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Yeah I'm always chuckling.
Pinkus
Posted - 21 April 2017 09:24
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I've always worked, m8 -- parents never had any money but always worked hard. The idea that if someone's paying you a wage you should work hard is hard-wired into me because of that.

I'll figure something out.
Parsnip
Posted - 21 April 2017 09:26
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working too hard so that the job absorbs you and impacts your life negatively is not good - lawyers are very good at thinking up reasons why they need to keep on the gravy train - basically working so hard that it impacts their health but satisfied that they might have enough money for private healthcare

life is for living
work is for allowing you to do interesting and fulfilling things with your life
there are some jobs and types of work that are genuinely enjoyable
but we do it for the money - a bargain between us and employer (or Lydia and client)
if they were not paying we would not do it

there will be literally one or two exceptions in a sea of thousands swimming against the tide worrying about law firms asking us to be more efficient but also by the same token asking us to bill more / spend more time doing things because thats how the majority are paid or rewarded

if the money is good - play the game - boss it - but then remember that you are a letter away from being able to do something else - it might only pay half or a third of the amount. keep your watch budget low and your giggle sensible so you don't become trapped.
Cofferdam
Posted - 21 April 2017 09:32
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Nothing in law requires or allows for talent

Not just that. It stifles and kills any nascent creativity. One has to wonder how does a bright early 20s something spark from a top Uni who had everything going for him in his days from creativity to spark to charisma to depth suddenly, upon joining a law firm, finds himself in 10 years time all those elements a distant aspiration. Bit by bit the profession saps that away.
Jon Snow
Posted - 21 April 2017 09:33
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Gravitas? What Gravitas?
Posted - 20 April 2017 22:33
private practice is a mugs game unless you are getting serious dollar and are happy for your job to be your life (like most successful city lawyers).

Even when you're getting serious dollar and thought you were happy for your job to be your life, it's still a mug's game. This is only a rewarding path for psychopaths. What you give up is never worth it if you're in any way a functional human.


Clergs (!)
Posted - 21 April 2017 09:36
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I think everyone should try doing at least two career paths because "law is this law is that" makes me snort a bit

you spend 21 years learning to be intrigued by the world and the next 45 learning to bear how boring your own reality is
Blue Box
Posted - 21 April 2017 09:46
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Wise words from Parsnip.