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Main Discussion

The end of free trade
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Say. Joe. Priest. A.
Posted - 18 March 2017 19:12
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39315098

Or at least, the end of a worldwide push towards freer trade.

Promotion of free trade has lifted millions out of poverty and has shared wealth. It's not been perfect, it has been abused, and if you are xenophobic or intolerant, prefer isolationism and selfishness, then I accept it's probably not been ideal. However, it's been undeniably beneficial to those who suffer most.

Sad times. I hope you Brexiters and Trumpeters are proud of yourselves.
saoirse99
Posted - 18 March 2017 19:16
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It has been terrible for the working and lower middle classes in the west tbf

Not sure there's a viable alternative, mind
Say. Joe. Priest. A.
Posted - 18 March 2017 19:27
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Only insofar as their relative position in the world has been reduced. They've actually done pretty well out of it, but I accept it's difficult to recognise when everyone else is doing even better out of it
saoirse99
Posted - 18 March 2017 19:30
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Do you mean because they haven't starved to death after their jobs were moved east thanks to the welfare state that keeps them just alive and little more in perpetuity?

Better than the workhouse, i guess.
saoirse99
Posted - 18 March 2017 19:32
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Middle class westerners are massively indebted, working harder than ever (if they can find work - many can't) and depressed and stressed like never before. Thanks to free trade it creeps east. I had a job that was moved to Poland a few years ago and my polish successor was made redundant 18 months after that when her job went to Bangladesh.
Say. Joe. Priest. A.
Posted - 18 March 2017 19:34
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Yes, that's the problem with free trade. On individual levels it can be unpleasant and humans are designed to remember and overemphasise moderate trauma.
saoirse99
Posted - 18 March 2017 19:37
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Eventually it transcends individual levels, though

Free trade is responsible for the wealth inequality we suffer now in the UK

A few rich people move their pawns around to maximise profit and minimise pay for minions (even professional ones)

I do think it should be very hard for UK owned companies to be bought by overseas companies and i try not to buy from offshored entities (hello, quorn) but it's much too late now
saoirse99
Posted - 18 March 2017 19:38
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PS being lifelong unemployed is not "moderate trauma". It's a destroyed life sitting in a destroyed community.

Your job probably won't exist in ten years either but THAT will somehow be unfair.
saoirse99
Posted - 18 March 2017 19:52
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Faod i am aware that i seem to be ad idem with Matty on this topic and yes it does bother me
Osama
Posted - 18 March 2017 20:04
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corruption and state crime having nothing do with poverty in these hellholes of course

oh look another african famine
Say. Joe. Priest. A.
Posted - 18 March 2017 22:49
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Even if your point were in any way relevant to the relative positives and negatives of free trade or counter to the OP theme (which it isn't, on either count), isolationism and protectionism typically assist corrupt regimes you morally repellent naysaying pessimism virus.

Just because others don't always seem to help themselves, doesn't mean we shouldn't do our best to help them anyway. Do you England won the 2003 World Cup by moaning that Neil Back wasn't big enough or Martin Johnson's discipline was too poor and then giving up?

Your problem, fundamentally, is that you have no willpower or sense of purpose osama. Even your bitter and chippy sense of humour, just about your only redeeming feature, lacks tenacity. Earnestness wins, much as you might hate it.
Osama
Posted - 18 March 2017 22:54
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It would be nice, was my point, if just once you didnt blame everything on the west, your country, brexit or whatever

Your unpleasantness to everyone, on the other hand, is a given and makes you sound 12 and a humourless dullard, which i'm sure the serge accolytes looking up to you cross legged would never get
Osama
Posted - 18 March 2017 23:02
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As for lack of purpose child, i have said before that when you have overcome the obstacles i have and worked in the countries i have, your starry eyed vision might also slip a bit

But thanks for the selfie
Say. Joe. Priest. A.
Posted - 18 March 2017 23:32
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I wasn't blaming the West. As usual, you've missed the point and made an erroneous assumption.

You make great claims to experience, yet always your naïveté despite the supposedly impressive obstacle overcoming is the thing that shines through. There is something so sinister about a man who boasts about his cynicism and bitterness on the basis of thinking he's seen the world. Don't be so arrogant as to assume we would all fail as you have.
Osama
Posted - 18 March 2017 23:39
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Why do you bother? Do you think im going to change? Or is it, as always with you, about having the last world?

What i have noticed is you impute upon rof people your own vision of them, not just me, when as is always pointed out, you know nothing about them, bar a few political opinions with which you disagree

Carry on wasting your talents from your family's Turnip Tower if it makes you feel good, but no-one's listening

Osama
Posted - 18 March 2017 23:42
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And this obsession you have with people addressing "your" point head on, this is rof you loon. Grow up
Osama
Posted - 18 March 2017 23:45
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Awaiting your always half hour mithered drafted response with glee
Osama
Posted - 19 March 2017 00:50
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ps. i have mentioned my experience twice in a year, directly to you, in the face of your asinine childish attacks. How is that "sinister"?

Are you in law serge? i couldnt care less of course but i imagine your trust fund enables you to live life achieving next to fvck all in a quango or similar pointless exercise. Not that law is any better, obviously

Rof was once fun when all this was fields. Only Laz got uptight, which is how he made his name. How about you crack a funny some time?
Say. Joe. Priest. A.
Posted - 19 March 2017 09:25
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I'm actually always cracking funnies, you are just too po-face to recognise them because you hate jokes at your expense and you are too anti-Sergio biased to recognise them.

Frankly, I'm just bored of you bringing me up on random threads when I'm not posting. It's weird.

But most of all, I'm bored of your patronising defeatist response to everything. As if you know better just because you struggle to hold you're booze every now and again.

And heh at your bitterness and choppiness - you know nothing about me. The one area I do agree with you is that you, osama, are incapable of helping anyone or acting selflessly or thoughtfully, because you need to focus on sorting out your own juvenile fatalist attitude.
Osama
Posted - 19 March 2017 11:34
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I think a straw poll of the planet would find out how funny you are but that might take a while. Lets just agree to disagree on everything
Lord Judge
Posted - 19 March 2017 11:48
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Free trade is a marvellous idea and has helped lift billions out of dire poverty.

However, isn't the EU an obstacle to free trade? It imposes tariffs on the rest of the world and has enacted numerous protectionist measures of its own.

In fact, Europe's hands continue to be awash with the blood of innocent Africans. Particularly those that rely on agricultural trade with the European Union.

It appears the EU only wants free trade with other white people.


sad banta
Posted - 19 March 2017 11:49
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That should keep Sergio going for a few hours
Say. Joe. Priest. A.
Posted - 19 March 2017 13:45
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Heh

The argument, a particular favourite of 'Faxy/Sigh of the Oppressed, is so obviously weak it's almost not worth engaging with. However, as it keeps on cropping up by Brexiters unwilling to accept the reality that Brexit is a protectionist, anti-globalisation policy, let's just knock it on the head:
(1) no-one is claiming the EU is perfect, it's not
(2) unilateral declarations of free trade are demonstrably counter-productive if the aim is bilateral free trade, so the idea that the EU's external tariff system is in any way evidence of anti-free trade credentials is risible
(3) free trade is a process, not a state, and the EU remains the leading free trade bloc and at the forefront of global efforts towards free trade

So any suggestion that the current state of the EU is an example that it is anything other than imperfect (rather than actually anti-free trade) is obviously false and to raise it suggests someone is irretrievably biased against the EU and unable to even attempt to be objectice
Osama
Posted - 19 March 2017 16:13
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the world aint spinning your way son. unlucky
Say. Joe. Priest. A.
Posted - 19 March 2017 17:18
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in what way is that relevant "son"?

You think yourself wise osama, but for all your "experience" you have not wisdom
Osama
Posted - 19 March 2017 17:33
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we heard you the first thousand times

ive concluded your mentally fragile and a true snowflake

good luck with trying not to be a twat all your life
SumoKing
Posted - 19 March 2017 17:54
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the genie is out of the bottle and free trade is not going away. The idea that you can somehow protect yourself by throwing up big trade barriers is ridiculous, all you do is cannibalise internal consumption and pour money into the pockets of your own aristocracy

It's not surprising that the labourities and conservatives are unitied in their demands for protectionism on rof, the conservatives want anything to hit the EU with, a block that has brought down barriers between 27 countries and rolled them back significantly with a number of non members

Yeah, I get that there is an idea that africa is some big agricultural economy that is punished by the EU (most world grain comes from Russia and Ukraine) but I suspect the problems in Africa have more to do with indemnic corruption and mis management than they do with the EU's trade policy towards the continent.
Osama
Posted - 19 March 2017 17:57
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is what i said
Say. Joe. Priest. A.
Posted - 19 March 2017 18:41
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Osama
Posted - 19 March 2017 17:33 Report as offensive Report Offensive
we heard you the first thousand times

ive concluded your mentally fragile and a true snowflake

good luck with trying not to be a twat all your life



Oh don't be such a grumpy old bugger!

Anyway, I thought you didn't like people making judgements about others based on Internet postings? Now you're being hypocritical as well as overestimating yourself. I'm not the one who is mentally fragile. I get that the past can hurt. But from the way I see it, you can either run from it, or learn from it. Time you stopped running.

If that makes me a twat, I can only apologise. Leopards can't change their spots. Guess I'm a catwat.
Osama
Posted - 19 March 2017 18:45
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More meaningless chat

Ok. I think we're done
Say. Joe. Priest. A.
Posted - 19 March 2017 18:48
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I'm just quoting films ossie my luvva

Hakuna matata
Osama
Posted - 19 March 2017 18:52
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ftr, if you pin the drink thing on mental fragility, i wish you all the best with your understanding of life. Drinks has killed far bigger and better people than me, presidents and nobel prize winners etc. But if it gives you a peg to hang an attack on, whatever works for you.
Say. Joe. Priest. A.
Posted - 19 March 2017 18:57
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Er, I'm not the one who brought up mental fragility you hypocritical buffoon.

If you lash out, don't be surprised if someone lashes back. I'd have thought you'd know that, what with all your great experience.
Osama
Posted - 19 March 2017 19:00
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heh, slightly missing the point, as you would say, but no great shakes

The End
Say. Joe. Priest. A.
Posted - 19 March 2017 19:03
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I know far more about alcoholism than you would realise. You're an arrogant, ignorant selfish tw@badger.

Kissy? And hugsies? What with us both being twats n all?
Say. Joe. Priest. A.
Posted - 19 March 2017 21:06
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Can't believe I don't even get a heh for quoting the Lion King and Lord of the Rings in a rofspute