Asia-Pacific

Check out this week's top Asia-Pacific news on the Asia Pacific Headline page.
  

Follow RoF

For all the breaking news, follow RoF on Twitter and Facebook

         
   
  

My Profile

Check all your messages, update your blog, change your account details,  find friends and much more on the My Profile section.
  

Regional Firms

Thinking of moving out of the City? Regional Inside Info gives you the lowdown on firms in Birmingham, Bristol, Manchester and Leeds.
  

Main Discussion

Rate it
0
Report as offensive
B'A'M
Posted - 17 March 2017 09:32
can we turn this thread into kettle based puns?
B'A'M
Posted - 17 March 2017 09:33
Report as offensive
that Martin Kettle has May worked out to a T(ea)
ReggiePerrin is voting Lib Dem
Posted - 17 March 2017 09:33
Report as offensive
No.
BREXIT!!
Posted - 17 March 2017 09:33
Report as offensive
WHAT GAMBLE?!

THE UPPITY JOCKS WOULDN'T DARE, AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE OUR CAKE AND EAT IT IN THE BREXIT NEGOTIATIONS!!

YOU CAN TAKE THAT TO THE BANK!
old git roundabout
Posted - 17 March 2017 09:35
Report as offensive
he's got a chip on his shoulder
Queenie E
Posted - 17 March 2017 09:36
Report as offensive
I also found this interesting. I can't work TMPM out so any insight is helpful
Keef_
Posted - 17 March 2017 09:37
Report as offensive
Sh doesn't have much choice. Her working majority isn't big enough for her to ignore eurosceptics in her party, so it was always going to be hard Brexit unless there was a snap election and a bigger majority. Not a gambler, just a pragmatist.

The real question is why, considering Jezza's one-man Laurel & Hardy show yesterday, there hasn't been a snap election.
ReggiePerrin is voting Lib Dem
Posted - 17 March 2017 09:40
Report as offensive
Brad's big donger
Posted - 17 March 2017 09:35 Report as offensive Report Offensive
Are you sure May wants Scotland to stay? She was as quietbin the Better Together campaign as she was in the Remian campaign.

Life would be much easier for the tories without Scotland in the uk and they bring very little to the table.


I think some in the Tory Party would rather like Scotland to go, although I'm not sure May is one of them. The rise of English nationalism in the Conservative Party is one of the great overlooked stories of our times. As I said on another thread, in spite of the Tories' Unionist roots and their uber-patriotic rhetoric, their political prejudices really come to the fore when confronted with the reality of millions of Celtic voters who support social democratic policies.
bananaman returns
Posted - 17 March 2017 09:40
Report as offensive
Theresa May is a political incompetent who is only in the job because the rest of the candidates were jokes. If sans baggage was leader of the opposition she would already be well on her way to defeat at the next election, but Ed Milibean and Gordon Brown's decision to destroy the electable Labour party means that inanimate carbon rod could take over as Conservative leader and romp to 2020 victory even if hard brexit causes the sky to fall in and Twitter to stop working.
ReggiePerrin is voting Lib Dem
Posted - 17 March 2017 09:41
Report as offensive
Keith Nearing
Posted - 17 March 2017 09:37 Report as offensive Report Offensive
Sh doesn't have much choice. Her working majority isn't big enough for her to ignore eurosceptics in her party, so it was always going to be hard Brexit unless there was a snap election and a bigger majority. Not a gambler, just a pragmatist.


I agree with that, actually, save that I think that the one man who could have delivered a soft Brexit is Boris Johnson. Nixon in China and all that.
DeltaBravo
Posted - 17 March 2017 12:13
Report as offensive
"What will be left, though, is a vacuum for a party advocating smaller government and greater freedom. If the US parallel holds any water, you would think that would be the Labour Party's natural next move, but I just can't seem them doing it."

Step forward the Lib Dems... seems natural territory for them.
Coracle Lolling
Posted - 17 March 2017 12:50
Report as offensive
I don't think May is after hard Brexit.

I think she's positioning: (a) for the electorate so when she gets a deal it looks like she's won things even if the things we've won are actually things we already have and are only losing due to the lunacy of (hard) Brexit; (b) for the EU to buy some negotiating room as if we have to have a deal and they know we have to have a deal we have no bargaining power; and (c) to win over the swivel eyed loons in her party and in the right wing press who think she lacks the credentials to lead having campaigned (half-heartedly) for Remain.

The danger is that she's raising expectations with the swivel eyed loons in her party and in the right wing press and I'm not confident in her ability to pull them back.
ReggiePerrin is voting Lib Dem
Posted - 17 March 2017 12:57
Report as offensive
Wot cookie said. B/lair discredited progressive centrist politics in this country. It died in the sands of Iraq.
ReggiePerrin is voting Lib Dem
Posted - 17 March 2017 12:59
Report as offensive
Coracle Lolling
Posted - 17 March 2017 12:50 Report as offensive Report Offensive
I don't think May is after hard Brexit.

I think she's positioning: (a) for the electorate so when she gets a deal it looks like she's won things even if the things we've won are actually things we already have and are only losing due to the lunacy of (hard) Brexit; (b) for the EU to buy some negotiating room as if we have to have a deal and they know we have to have a deal we have no bargaining power; and (c) to win over the swivel eyed loons in her party and in the right wing press who think she lacks the credentials to lead having campaigned (half-heartedly) for Remain.

The danger is that she's raising expectations with the swivel eyed loons in her party and in the right wing press and I'm not confident in her ability to pull them back.


I agree with (c), and that would apply to all Tory PMs, with the possible exception of Johnson, who has enough political capital banked to extricate us from this mess. But I wouldn't assume that May is just the victim of circumstances here. I can well believe that stories that 6 years in the Home Office radicalised her on the subject of immigration; and stringent immigration control is not achievable without a hard Brexit.
ReggiePerrin is voting Lib Dem
Posted - 17 March 2017 13:08
Report as offensive
THere's also the point that setting up a Department of International Trade was inconsistent with anything other than a hard Brexit, as being within the single market would make such a department redundant. I don't believe May set the department up as an elaborate, expensive bluff (although making Fox the SoS was probably done for a laugh, as there is no other possible explanation for that appointment).
Coracle Lolling
Posted - 17 March 2017 13:36
Report as offensive
although making Fox the SoS was probably done for a laugh, as there is no other possible explanation for that appointment

Don't be too swift in ruling out incompetency.
ReggiePerrin is voting Lib Dem
Posted - 17 March 2017 13:39
Report as offensive
Yes... a man so patriotic that in his last job... well, we know what he did in his last job.
Sergio Bogface
Posted - 18 March 2017 09:39
Report as offensive
Reggie, do you think that anything other than a hard brexit is realistically achievable?

TM is going into a negotiation in which the other side have said openly they are going to shaft her. The EU have to come away from this with it looking as if the UK lost - pour encourager les autres. Therefore anything she offers they will quietly take, while giving very little in return and anything she wants they will either say no, or extract a ridiculous price in return. Thus, anyone from the UK looking for either a win-win or no deal is going to have to take no deal, because the EU have to come away with a win-lose. No deal would look a lot like hard brexit.

In addition, if TM is really going to address one of the main concerns of the 52%, then she has to put some sort of controls on immigration. Free movement is a sticking point for the EU. Going to the EU asking for anything other than free movement of people will very probably result in a hard brexit.

Given where we are, I wonder if even Mother Theresa could come away from the negotiations with anything other than a hard brexit. After 6 months of telling each other to **** off in a variety of European languages, a hard brexit will ensue.
jinx
Posted - 18 March 2017 10:21
Report as offensive
As opposed to boring the arse off them with made up gibberish?
scoobywho
Posted - 19 March 2017 00:02
Report as offensive
Wittering on and saying nothing jambandit understands... poor thing
Osama
Posted - 19 March 2017 00:10
Report as offensive
Chris is a rof legend, he said so
In the Navy
Posted - 20 March 2017 01:23
Report as offensive
I sort of agree with Chris on this. Reggie loves telling everyone how clever he is when the real answer is actually not very. All pseudo academic waffle.
Mitrovic
Posted - 20 March 2017 02:08
Report as offensive
The voters will not back "hard" Brexit. The voters had no interest in leaving the European Union at all until that moron Cameron asked them. Like the referendum itself, hard Brexit is now a Tory party ruse to try and push one of the party's key dividing issues into the weeds as fast as possible for political reasons, at hang the cost to the country. A negotiated and partial Brexit, or no Brexit at all, would be much more in the country's interests.

May is a dickhead. It baffles me where she ever garnered a reputation for being a "safe pair of hands", intellfentn or even commonsensical. If she is any of those things, then it is only by the pitiful standards of politics, but in truth she is exactly as mediocre as everyone else who has been involved in running Britain since 2010. To think we cast off the bloke who basically saved the world from the financial crisis, for this bunch of doss c*nts.
Mitrovic
Posted - 20 March 2017 02:11
Report as offensive
As a reminder, Reggie voted Tory in 2015 because he "thought Mr Cameron deserved a chance".

Mr Cameron did not deserve a chance.

I voted Labour in 2015 because "I thought Mr Cameron was a moron".

I win!

Saracens1876
Posted - 20 March 2017 08:41
Report as offensive
I have not looked back at the news but is it not simply the case that the MP's who were considering supporting her said 'we want a PM who will deliver a Brexit on these terms aka Hard and she wanting to be PM and needing their support said 'fine'.

Is not also possible that that by going in possibly very hard, which is a risk, it might produce a better deal and in effect a softer Brexit in reality as there will have to be compromise and she can then say when she and the MP's sense the mood has changed in the country ' that is the best I can do' and the 'no deal' crap was a David Davis line.
Bright Carver
Posted - 20 March 2017 08:47
Report as offensive
Think you may be right, Saracens - those that want it hard are going to get it much softer than they'd ideally like and those that want it soft (or not at all) will get it far harder than they'd hoped for. May and the Govt. are going to be on sticky ground either way and end result is no-one's going to be completely satisfied. Be interesting to see how it pans out.

Do people think May will serve Art. 50 by the end of March?
Misshoolie
Posted - 20 March 2017 08:49
Report as offensive
It's not very principled tho is it? Delivering whatever it takes to get you the support to get and keep the job.
Keef_
Posted - 20 March 2017 08:55
Report as offensive
Agree that all the noise and posturing about no deal being better than a bad deal is pre-negotiating peacockery.

Cocks will be very much on blocks to get something sensible done in the 18 month negotiating window. If we end up on WTO terms as a result that will be seen as a comprehensive disaster of almost unparalleled incompetence.

The concern is that inherent complexity + 27 negotiating counter-parties + EU member state elections elsewhere + 18 months = limited scope for something sensible materialising.

Bright Carver
Posted - 20 March 2017 09:24
Report as offensive
No, it's not hoolz, but I'm thinking hard as to who the last PM we had was who wouldn't have done the same (i.e. delivering whatever it takes to get you the support to get and keep the job, rather than specifics now) in a similar position.

It's almost like the vast majority of politicians are mainly utter d1cks who just want to hold onto as much power for as long as they can, come what may.

kaul - your last para - exactly - the 27 point gives EU massive scope to 'foul' any 'largely agreed' concessions/items by coming in at the last minute and saying "Soz - we were all really up for that apart from Romania"...
ReggiePerrin is voting Lib Dem
Posted - 24 March 2017 09:46
Report as offensive
T. Dan Smith
Posted - 20 March 2017 02:11 Report as offensive Report Offensive
As a reminder, Reggie voted Tory in 2015 because he "thought Mr Cameron deserved a chance".

Mr Cameron did not deserve a chance.

I voted Labour in 2015 because "I thought Mr Cameron was a moron".

I win!


I voted Liberal Democrat in 2015 and I would do so again if an election was held tomorrow.

Cameron shouldn't have called the referendum, but that's very, very easy to say in hindsight, isn't it?
ReggiePerrin is voting Lib Dem
Posted - 24 March 2017 09:48
Report as offensive
#ivankasoffice
Posted - 20 March 2017 08:07 Report as offensive Report Offensive
Reggie I beg to differ that centrist politics is dead, quite the opposite in fact. Corbyn is ensuring "the Left" as broadly construed for the last 50 years will be wiped out. The stage is set for a shift to the right where the Centre has a key role to play as the only feasible alternative to perpetual feudalism under the tories after hard brexit


The key question is what's going to happen to Corbyn. There are mutterings that the man himself may have finally got the message and may be out of the way by 2020. We can only hope.
ReggiePerrin is voting Lib Dem
Posted - 24 March 2017 09:51
Report as offensive
Saracens1876
Posted - 20 March 2017 08:41 Report as offensive Report Offensive
I have not looked back at the news but is it not simply the case that the MP's who were considering supporting her said 'we want a PM who will deliver a Brexit on these terms aka Hard and she wanting to be PM and needing their support said 'fine'.


The point is that there is a hard core of Euro-headbangers on the Tory benches who have spent the last 40 years reducing the art of feeling betrayed to a fine art. They will simply not tolerate any leader, May or otherwise, who fails to deliver on their fantasies. You could replace Theresa May with Mother Teresa and you'd still come up against this difficulty.

"Europe" has brought down the last 4 Conservative prime ministers. Think on.
ReggiePerrin is voting Lib Dem
Posted - 24 March 2017 09:53
Report as offensive
Cocks will be very much on blocks to get something sensible done in the 18 month negotiating window. If we end up on WTO terms as a result that will be seen as a comprehensive disaster of almost unparalleled incompetence.

Seen by whom? Quite a few people in the Conservative Party would see a hard WTO Brexit as something of a victory.
Keef_
Posted - 24 March 2017 09:57
Report as offensive
I was thinking more of company bosses rather than the hard of thinking wing of the Tory party.
ReggiePerrin is voting Lib Dem
Posted - 24 March 2017 10:00
Report as offensive
I agree, but it's the lunatics who are running the asylum now.
125 Sleeps To Christmas
Posted - 24 March 2017 10:11
Report as offensive
That's what people said about the SDP. Took 16 years from them being created before a moderate Labour Party won power again.
ReggiePerrin is voting Lib Dem
Posted - 24 March 2017 10:39
Report as offensive
I think there was a window for a new centre party to be created in the brief oh- kittens period last year when it became apparent that the racists had won the referendum and Corbyn was refusing to go. I think there'd have to be a real crisis for the window to open again (which isn't to say that it won't happen....).